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Originally Posted By: RARiddell
Frame your reply around this, Who said they werent? How would you know? First off I never said anything about cheap, find it and quote me. If you are referring to sleeving a 95gbp Gun, then that would explain your confusion with that simple article. Look Im not here to argue with you, its obvious you dont like themperiod. Im not here to change your mind either! Just stating that sleeving is a very acceptable and reasonable way to get a damaged gun back into action. Read the article again you are missing details there is more than just Purdey in that article and read my first post a little more clearer; really not sure what you are yammin about in the first place. Go ahead!


So, you are of the belief that Mr. barrel guy dismantles the trousers after he cuts off the scrap barrels, and before he builds a sleever?
This is what you believe happens?

It doesnt.

Interesting that a few people here dont seem to understand that I have been in the shop of several rather good gunmakers on the continent, raised the subject with them, learned why they dont do it, and have come to agree with those actual gunmakers on the subject.

I dont have to go back too far to see you saying how very economical sleeving was. You say very economical, I say cheap. Same thing.

While this tread is going along, there is a thread running parallel to it, about what basically was an explosion in the chamber area of a 100 year old gun, that was not sleeved. The methods used to build barrel sets over that time are perishable, think braze, think solder, think 100 years of use and maybe some abuse. I dont want the gun that is at the point that the original barrels are junk. I dont want to pontificate over the different levels of sleeving quality. Using the example of the Purdey mentioned in the article, you would be better off NO MATTER WHAT, just finding a more lightly used example, and buying it. Just because we have guys who dont care what their guns are worth in the future doesnt mean everyone should subscribe to that notion. I dont, by the way.

You feel free to use whatever you like.

Best,
Ted

ed good #563137 01/19/20 10:53 AM
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So Ted, from your comments I must assume that only original, best quality guns meet your standards. No one could possibly do sleeving well enough to meet those high standards. Economics and value are of no consideration. Fellows with less expendable income should do without nice guns or shoot lesser guns rather than have an inferior "sleever". GMAFB!

Don't you own a shoot a Nitro Special? How does that stack up against my sleever?

How is the view from that high horse you're sitting upon?

Last edited by Hammergun; 01/19/20 11:41 AM.
ed good #563141 01/19/20 11:27 AM
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Some guns that have thin barrels are not necessarily worn out from use but from being taken in at the end of the season and the barrels cleaned up reblacked.i have seen nice guns with really thin barrels good candidate for sleeving and I don't think there is anything unsafe about sleeving on a gun with a good chamber area

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Originally Posted By: Hammergun
So Ted, from your comments I must assume that only original, best quality guns meet your standards. No one could possibly do sleeving well enough to meet those high standards. Economics and value are of no consideration. Fellows with less expendable income should do without nice guns or shoot lesser guns rather than have an inferior "sleever". GMAFB!

Don't you own a shoot a Nitro Special? How does that stack up against my sleever?

How is the view from that high horse you're sitting upon?


The view is just fine. The Nitro was in almost new condition when I got it, save some furry rust on the tubes. Mint bores with .036-.040 walls. The Nitro is in far better condition than your, or, anyone elses, sleever. I need a gun for use in non-toxic shot areas.

It was never rode hard. And not worth enough for anyone to contemplate a repair that cost that much to accomplish. Looking at what is for sale, and what guns cost, I would say the very great majority of guns fall into that same category. Especially older English boxlocks.

I dont care how the barrels got thin on any given gun. I dont want a gun that is at the point that the original barrels are thin.

As previously stated, use what you like. As I have already pointed out, there are places where sleeved guns are not accepted for reproof.

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks..

Best,
Ted

ed good #563205 01/20/20 01:13 AM
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This is like arguing with a wall, gents. Happy shooting!

ed good #563277 01/20/20 06:33 PM
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I once mentioned to Kirby Hoyt of Vintage Doubles that I have no interest in any sleeved guns. He told me I need to change my attitude about sleeved guns. He apparently thinks they are fine but he also sells a lot of them. I think sleeving is a good and economical way to save the stock and locks of what would otherwise be junk with unsound barrels. However, Id want to look a sleeved gun over carefully, and for that matter one with replacement barrels before jumping in, making sure they arent super tired old guns.


Socialism is almost the worst.
ed good #563320 01/20/20 11:11 PM
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You plan on replacing your good guns for sleevers, Buzz?

I dont. Suggest you re-think that.

Best,
Ted

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Nope. Likely, we are on the same page.


Socialism is almost the worst.
ed good #563339 01/21/20 08:32 AM
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This, like other posts about sleeving, tends to show that monobloc is the best barrel construction method to date.

Replacing tubes in a monobloc gun returns it to new condition. Can't say that about sleeving no matter how well it was carried out.

And no, sleeving is not the same thing. A monobloc breech is designed from the start to receive tubes so that the mating surfaces at the tube step are of equal thickness all the way round. Think about this detail regarding sleeving.

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Originally Posted By: canvasback
Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
A friend of mine and fellow sxs enthusiast was showing me his 28ga nitro special the other day. It was a twenty gauge that he'd bought from a hobby gun seller on the internet.

When he got it the 20ga barrels had been sleeved down to 28ga by a fitting which could only be described as plumbinglike. I know the Pieper french guns had a stepped barrel connection to the monoblock, but this looked just like something you'd see in the pipes under your house.

Anyhow my friend had just had a gunsmith smooth out the connection and engrave a design around the joint. 100% improvement...Geo



Pieper figured out pretty quickly he needed to make that obvious seam go away. So he did. While the monobloc reduces cost by simplifying manufacturing, the gun buying public doesn't want to know about it. They just want to save the money.

At least once Pieper had gone from the stepped barrel to one gently tapering down from the seam, the Pieper monoblock or Stahlkammerstck seems to have been highly regarded in pre-WWI Germany. Several old catalogues show lesser guns with imitation monoblocks with e.g. blackened chambers and lumps and engraved ring ahead of the chamber area.

Markus

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