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#568071 - 03/25/20 10:13 AM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8710
Loc: North Alabama
Fantastic Kerner - Anson Body Action with Emil or Ernst Kerner's initals on the tubes along w/ the initials >>F.A.<< on the flats.

Now there was a Fritz Albrecht but I am not sure he was active in the mid to late 1920s. But Gebrüder Adamy was as it was founded by Albert & Franz Adamy in 1921. So I would say Franz Adamy had some part in the tubeset knitting. You see the initials on many Suhl doubles from this period especially those of Charles Daly, being the last of his quality offerings.

Times were most difficult in this tumultuous period & many concerns faltered. In 1919, Ernst Kerner partnered with Carl Funk and by 1923 Ernst Kerner had hung out his own shingle while Kerner & Sohn(Emil) really began to falter and by 1929 looks like it went into receivership and was dispersed where in 1930 Emil Paul Jopp of Albrechts landed up with it. Ernst was in full control & is noted as being the designer of a boxlock platform - Erfinder selbstspannender Jagdwaffen. Too Ernst Kerner was supported by a machinist by the name of Johannes Viereck, who might have performed the heavy lifting on the platform?

Have you a better image of the side of the frame?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#568088 - 03/25/20 12:32 PM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
gunsaholic Offline
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Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 1034
Loc: Canada
Here are some more pics.






Edited by gunsaholic (03/25/20 12:33 PM)

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#568184 - 03/26/20 10:49 AM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
Dilly541 Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 11/22/16
Posts: 72
I have a question regarding German guns from this period. Apart from varying degrees of engraving and some slight differences in receiver shape or cocking indicators, the boxlock guns appear to originate from the same basic design. Did gun makers like Sauer, Merkel, Kerner, etc all source them from the same factory and finish them to their own specifics, or did they just all use the exact same design? Correct me if I am wrong, but Simsons appear to be slightly different. My T+S Nimrod is clearly a completely different action.

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#568185 - 03/26/20 10:52 AM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
Dilly541 Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 11/22/16
Posts: 72
On second thought, Simsons look pretty similar too. It’s the Dalys that look slightly different.

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#568229 - 03/26/20 08:03 PM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8710
Loc: North Alabama
Your Nimrod frame would have originated @ the Romerwerke / Römerwerk/ Röhmerwerk . Jacob Römer / Röhmer either didn't know his last name or how to spell it. He seems to jump from one spelling to another @ the drop of a hat. I would think Sauer could have forged their own frames, but then again there could have been a blank frame forge such as the Schilling forge. E. Schmidt & Habermann did their own frame filing and too might have had the capability. It may be that the Anson & Deeley Body Action and variants had to maintain a certain amount of steel for the integrity of the action, so they pretty much were the same shape.

Daly / Lindner more than likely sourced his frames from Sauer.

Have a gander @ all the mechanics @ the Röhmerwerk facility:

http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/archives/romerwerk-the-becker-revolving-shotgun/

You know, I hadn't noticed the 1925 trademark of a dagger thru a R or Rs.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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#568457 - 03/29/20 03:22 PM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
Carl Baird Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 06/04/10
Posts: 63
Loc: Los Angeles
If of interest, I own an Ernst Schlegelmilch 16 ga. Picked it up in Vegas show about 8 years ago and it took me 4 years to find the makers name located right between the two firing pins on breach face. It was very faint and when cleaning it, the light caught the markings and with the help of a permanent marker I was able to read 90% of the name...got the rest by googling it. I bought it because of the nice design of receiver...reminded me of my 16 ga. Fox AE.
After discovering the maker, I called the German collectors assn. in NY (?) and a very helpful older gent. told me he thought I had the only Ernst Schlegelmilch in the states. Evidently, Ernst was well known for a safety device he patented for his guns.
It's a nice gun, not fancy but handles well and shoots well too.
Carl

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#568552 - 03/30/20 12:27 PM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
Dilly541 Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 11/22/16
Posts: 72
I’d love to see a picture of it...

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#568554 - 03/30/20 12:33 PM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: Dilly541]
gunsaholic Offline
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Registered: 05/31/11
Posts: 1034
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dilly541
I&#146;d love to see a picture of it...

As would I.

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#569253 - 04/08/20 08:50 AM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: Dilly541]
canvasback Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 5451
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dilly541
I have a question regarding German guns from this period. Apart from varying degrees of engraving and some slight differences in receiver shape or cocking indicators, the boxlock guns appear to originate from the same basic design. Did gun makers like Sauer, Merkel, Kerner, etc all source them from the same factory and finish them to their own specifics, or did they just all use the exact same design? Correct me if I am wrong, but Simsons appear to be slightly different. My T+S Nimrod is clearly a completely different action.


One of the things that interested me about your Nimrod was that it was an entirely different action. I had for many years a Heym 16 that I sold last year to VictoryXC. It came from a similar time period. A cursory look suggests a great deal of similarity with the Kerner Gunsaholic is showing here (but for the bolsters). The Kerner appears to be finished to a higher degree and some details are different but I would not be surprised if the rough forgings each maker began with were the same.

Brian, if my experience with the Heym is anything to go on, you got a great gun. Patrick stole it from me but I suspect, knowing you, you got an even better deal! laugh How long are the barrels?
_________________________
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia

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#569268 - 04/08/20 12:26 PM Re: Emil Kerner [Re: gunsaholic]
xausa Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 607
Loc: Puryear, TN
I believe the screw in the top rear of the action reveals it to be an improved Anson and Deeley invented by Emil Kerner. Axel Eichendorff's (kuduae's) comment:

"During the 1920s the Suhl gunmakers almost universally adopted E.Kerner's modification of the A&D lockwork. Kerner relocated the sears to the top/rear of the action. They turn on a screw located at the top rear of the action and engage a detent on the top of the tumblers, removed as far as possible from the hammer fulcrum. This arrangement vastly improved the leverage. As much less mainspring pressure rested on the sear detent, Kerner's top sears allow lighter and at the same time safer trigger releases. Secondary safety sears are unnecessary with Kerner's sear arrangement."

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...true#Post233792

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