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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6 |
I am looking to uncover some information on the maker of my double, a standard 12 bore boxlock that was made in England. The maker's name on the rib is "A Lancaster." What can you folks recommend as good sources of information?
Thanks, Ed
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 37
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 37 |
Alfred Lancaster joined his brother, Charles William Lancaster in 1855 to form Charles William & Alfred Lancaster (successors to Charles Lancaster). The partnership lasted only until 1859 when Alfred opened up on his own at 27 South Audley Street. In that year he patented a breech mechanism and cartridge charger (No. 2753). In 1865 he patented a breechloader with linked firing pins (No. 1525). In 1886 the firm moved to 50 Green Street, Grosvenor Square. In 1890 Alfred died, and in 1892 Charles Lancaster & Co, run by H Thorn, bought the firm. It was subsequently bought by Stephen Grant and Joseph Lang Ltd before being bought by David Perkins. The records of the firm are held by David Perkins of Charles Lancaster & Co Ltd, The Firs, Bishopswood, Somerset TA20 3RU; Tel/Fax 01460 234354.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 465
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 465 |
Alas, Dave Perkins, who was a great gentleman and made some (a very few) of the finest guns ever to come out of the UK, died earlier his year. I'm not sure of what has happened since then. His wife Chris may still live at The Firs, but I haven't heard anything since the funeral.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6 |
Thanks much Turnagain. It must then be that my double, a 12 bore, 2 1/2 inch gun with original barrels and nitro proofed, is over a hundred years old? This seems remarkable for a gun in this condition and proofed for nitro powder (and BP)without having been sleeved or rebaralled? I was estimating, based on above and having so much cc that the gun was about fifty years old? Would there be a way to fairly accurately date my double? Its SN is 4372. Ed
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,579 Likes: 88
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,579 Likes: 88 |
Give a detailed description of all of the proofmarks that are on the barrel flats. Also give us the full address that's on the rib. Date can be narrowed down quite a bit from this info.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6 |
"BV" with crown above "BP" with crown above "NP" with crown above "nitro proof" number "12" and a small "c" beneath, both inside a diamond "2 1/2 " "1 1/8 oz" The above are all exactly alike on both barrels, and in addition;
Right barrel - no choke marking (and it does mic accordingly) - a fraction with a "13" over a "1" Left barrel - an additional number "12" by itself(no diamond) - "choke" (and does mic accordingly) - very small symbol of crossed swords with a letter "s" beneath.
And finally the rib is marked "A LANCASTER" in all caps.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,579 Likes: 88
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,579 Likes: 88 |
I'm at work now but I'll look them up when I get home. Is there no address on the rib?
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6 |
No. No address. Thanks to all who helped. Ed
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,579 Likes: 88
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,579 Likes: 88 |
BV with crown = Birmingham blackpowder inspection mark 1904-1925 BP with crown = Birmingham definitive blackpowder proof 1904- NP with crown = English Nitro proofmark in use starting 1904-1925 12/c in a dimond = Birmingham 12 bore with chamber shorter than 3" since 1877-1955 1 1/8 oz = Proofed for 1 1/8 oz shot since 1904-1925 13/1 bore size since 1925 = .719 to .729 Small crossed swords with letter S = I have never seen this nor can I find in in my reference material.
Narrows it down to after 1904 and before 1925. Alfred died in 1890 and the company lasted only 2 more years. I don't see how this gun could be made by A Lancaster and have proofmarks only from 1904-1025.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
I'd bet on two things here. One, no one named Lancaster built it, and two, it got the name Lancaster engraved on the rib to up the brand value. The Lancaster name was still kicking around in someone's shop - famous brand names die a very slow death. It seems to have been built around the high water mark of Birmingham BL production.
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