doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Roosevelt 1903

I was looking on proxibid over the weekend and saw this replica of Theodore Roosevelt's first 1903 sporter

Roosevelt 1903

then I found this video

Kermit's 1903


It would be nice if someone did a run of stocks like on these rifles.

Would love to purchase a stock like this. This would be a neat rifle to replicate for sure.

Curious Fred, why?

I would like to have a sporter, like what Roosevelt and his son carried. The nice thing about this stock, is that it isn't particularly fancy, sights and butt plate are readily available.

Having a sporter like Roosevelt carries would be cool.

On a different level though, one must take into account that his sporter was likely the FIRST 1903 Sporter. Pretty dang close to it at least.

As a collector of 1903 sporters, this is basically a must have!

I feel the same way. The Great American Gun Stock company used to make stocks imitating Wundhammer, Griffin Howe, and other classic styles. The stock, that Roosevelt had, wasn't particularly fancy. No elaborate checkering patterns, relatively straight grained walnut, a fairly common butt plate, kind of a long forend though.

How many members of the forum think similarly?

Fred

I don't like barrel bands or long forends on most any sport configured rifle, but a few seem to pull it off. The proportions strike me as pleasing, easily making me want a closer look. I'm not an '03 fan in particular, but if I stumbled on the right project barreled action, this style of stock would interest me more than to end up with an American style classic sporter.

I like this example rifle. The wood grain, checkering, level of metal prep, good apparent fit and finish all say good stuff to me, not plain. For me, the whole package pulls it off, not just the stock, and they don't make 'em like that any more. I fairly recently saw an old timey group picture where one of the fellows was holding a Winchester single shot with that same forend, barrel band treatment, makes me want to dig around and see if I can find it again.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=37974&page=2

I would have to agree with the late Michael Petrov. Stuart Edward White's Springfield is/was the classic "African Springfield".

White's Springfield was built by Ludwig Wundhammer, who was the master at converting Springfields in the early days. I was lucky enough to have been the owner of one of Wundhammer's Springfields, and the design and workmanship were impeccable, surpassed only by Griffin and Howe in the 1930's.

Although I appreciate history, and would enjoy owning an original done like Roosevelt's; I have no desire to build a replica myself. A barrel band doesn't interest me at all beyond the historical provenance those guns have.

From the auction description: "On February 5th, 1904, Teddy received his 1903 Sporting rifle from Brig. Gen. William Crozier of army ordnance." Hmmmm, looks like Teddy used his influence while president to have the army work on his personnel project. Which he then kept and took to Africa hunting.

Reading further from the description at the auction, apparently the people who commissioned the rifle up for sale, actually built 2 of them and are selling one of the pair. Since they were only completed in late 2019, it is obvious that the seller is selling one to help defray the cost of building the rifles. Probably explains the rather high (IMO) starting bid and again IMO opinion unrealistic estimate.
Well the auction is 5 days off so we will see what if anything it brings. I know I have no desire to only a "replica"

Sorry for the question but is this stock proportionally as whacky as it appears. Is there a better way to view it in perspective. Even enlarged it appears odd.

What looks "whacky" to you? Can you explain.

I think understand, the stock certainly looks different than what we are accustomed to. But remember, this was way back when, when people were beginning to build bolt action sporters. If I recall the video correctly, Roosevelt sent his favorite Winchester 1895 and told them to stock the 1903 similarly. The comb seems kind of strange, forend overly long.

Fred

I believe it is the opposite, where the '03 came first and the request was made of Winchester to duplicate the '03 dimensions on the 1895's, or so goes the story.

I think by the time the Kermit rifle was made, there were plenty of slimmer sporter style rifle stocks to emulate. Maybe, the background of Roosevelt, the nature of the factory and their smiths that made the original, and the stated intention of the rifle had something to do with the design of the stock and fitting the furniture. I would assume the museum would be preservation conscious, the original looks to have wear and scars of a good bit of field time.

The features that make it unlike a Kimber style American sporter, make it interesting to me. The original stock seems to me to be unable to derived from modifying a military stock. I think the stocker really knew what they were doing, rather than doing the work for just utility, pulled it off nicely to me.

The comb nose to grip transition looks overly deep, the cheek piece very broad and deep almost to the toe line, the LOP looks short but might be the picture and what make it proportionally unbalanced to my eye.

You are seeing it correctly. Horrid comb line and the huge pancake cheek piece which adds 5 pounds to the look of the gun. Massive for sure. Not hard to see why G&H did not want their name on the "replica" version.
TR was a very poor gun designer and if the original rifle was not associated with TR, the guns only value would be for a barreled action for a restocking project.

The aesthetics are certainly not widely accepted, but there are numerous writings about TR being extremely particular about how a rifle he used was stocked.

It's a replica, which to me makes it highly unlikely it will sell for the $7500 price tag.

What would the real McCoy sell for?

True enough, but if you have read "African Game Trails" it did not seem to help his shooting much.

What I hear is they were lucky ammunition was cheap.

Many of the well known outdoor characters and authors were spray and pray sportsman. From a modern easy chair, cringe worthy, but even if it were fiction, it's the only way to get an idea about long gone times. Roosevelt's hunting trips were quite a bit longer in duration and rougher around the edges than I could ever pretend to imagine.

What I can image is that many safe queens of today, might not quite stand up to the conditions. I think the wear on the finish of the Kermit rifle says that it spent most of its time in a scabbard, but if it could only talk. I'm not interested, but if I ever shouldered that rifle, it wouldn't surprise me if I didn't like the fit or feel, but?

Without an original, or similar provenance gun to judge, no way to know.

A few years back I was invited to a couple of the annual game dinners at The Campfire Club in Chappaqua, NY.

They have a few 1903's and SxS's in the display cases and their provenance escapes me but wouldn't surprise me if one belonged to TR, he was an early member.

Given the current turmoil in our nation and the dulling of Teddy's luster, in a year or so, people might be saying, "Teddy WHO?" Very Sad.

Thought you might enjoy seeing this. It was an example made at the request of the President of A&F many years Ago.

I see the TR rifle was passed. Not surprising. IMO it had about $1000 going for it and only that because of the G&H name, (I may be being generous), certainly not the action and/or terrible stock design

Wonder how high the bidding went on this clone rifle? If we knew, then we'd at least have an idea what two people thought it was worth.

Or was there any bids at all. I did not see that part of the auction. Maybe some one here did pay attention to this rifle and could give us the dirt details.

Yesiree- I'd love to have the 1903 Sporter G&H made for Hemingway in the early 1930's.. RWTF