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Originally Posted By: Argo44
Steve, your photos are amazing. The history and writing just as good. Look forward to next installment. It is a privilege to be able to read in advance what will be an excellent book.

Gene, thanks for the vote of confidence. There will be much, much more in the book, this is meant as a taste.

As to photographs, these are salvaged from my learning attempts, with morning sunlight and cardboard backdrops. I am investing in proper lighting and better backdrops, and I'm building a better support system to hold the guns. Many use a black or dark background, but I want to experiment with white and other colours, and with better controlled lighting. What I've grasped from taking pictures so far is that it is a lot harder than I thought it would be! Since so much can be learned from detail, I want pictures in the book to be crisp and clear. I've also come to realize why so many pictures of antique guns are in black-and-white - it hides all the blemishes of age.

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I did a little research on who was buying these guns; shooting was a well-to-do sport (commented on previously on this board).

(UK currency up to 1971:
-- 4 farthing = 1 penny (d);
-- 12d = 1 shilling (s)
-- 20s = 1 pound ()
-- 1/1s = 1 guinea (g)

1885:
-- Average annual wage for workers in England - 42/12s a year
-- Average annual wage overall for England - 56
-- Average annual wage for workers in UK total - 42/14s

From Reilly advertisements:
1834 - Double gun fowler with case - 10-20g
1855 - Double gun fowler with case - 10-25g
1885 - Double gun fowler with case - 20-50g

This does not count the cost of ammunition, or the annual hunting license. This might explain why young officers going abroad bought .577 caliber rifles (in order to use issue ammunition). The cost of trying to seem "respectable" or a "gentleman" at the time, with boot blacking, tea, hats, suits, horses, dogs, etc., and the required hobbies gambling and guns, was enormous. Small wonder that UK was run by a very small group of people (who all knew each other it seems). Whatever, a gun was a major outlay of cash for even well regarded "gentlemen."


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Good info. Here's a page from John Henry Walsh's book Manual of British Rural Sports, 5th Ed. in 1861.Good guns were very expensive!


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An interesting footnote in the history of breechloading guns is in the Blanch article above, courtesy of Mr. Newcomer. In the mid 1850s the breechloading ammunition industry in England had not yet evolved.

Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 07/17/20 09:02 AM.
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Thanks Daryl, "Stonehenge," editor of "The Field," in 1859 discussed the availability of ammunition for pin-fires in UK.



His conclusion was, unless you wanted to pay Lancaster an extortionist amount for his center-fire center-break gun ammo, a monopoly which he refused to let go of, you'd go with the pin-fire....and at that time, all the ammo was coming from France and was readily available in England. By 1862, Reilly, Eley and others were making it in Britain.



(That book is available on line and is a store house of historical information on the state of the trade at the time).

Last edited by Argo44; 07/16/20 06:44 PM.

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Does anyone know when Eley might have started making pinfire cartridges?

From the IGC Database, Eley Brothers started selling pinfire cases, probably French manufacture, in 1860, and patented their own version in 1861. Is it known if they started making Eley pinfire cartridges in 1861?

Last edited by Steve Nash; 07/16/20 06:58 PM. Reason: Additional information
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I'll look...So far here are comments "The Field":

21 Jun 1860 "The Field" - Eley selling breech loader cartridge accessory reloader:


17 Oct 1860 "The Field" - Discontent with Eley Red cartridges reloaded for pin-fires.


from 03 Nov 1860 "The Field" about reloading "Lefaucheux" pin-fire cartridges. At that time Boss was making them (or at least marketing them), Eley as well - his "Red Cartridges" - though it looks like there were problems depending on the gun and it is not clear from the comment whether Eley was selling French cartridges or his own..

03 Nov 1860 "The Field"


Last edited by Argo44; 07/16/20 08:45 PM.

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05 Jan 1861, "The Field" - first Eley advertisement for pin-fire cartridges:




23 Feb 1862, "The Field" - looks like the major retailers continued to stock French cartridges:

Last edited by Argo44; 07/16/20 09:52 PM.

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Eley 1861:


Full Size

And my article on it:

Full Size


Full Size


Clock Guns, Pauly Guns, Pinfire Guns and Pinfire Cartridges
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Thanks Aaron, Looking at those "Field" articles, I have to agree with you, the author of the "Pinfire Page" article ...
-- "I think the cartridges Eley listed in 1860 could easily be the same design he patented in 1861,"
But I think even more likely is your second conclusion:
-- "It's completely possible that there was a completely different design that existed that first year."
The commentary in the Fall 1860 in "The Field" about the problems shooters were having with "Eley Red Cartridges" seems to indicate Eley was selling his own shells at the time and that changes had to be made because of feedback from the customers.

Last edited by Argo44; 07/16/20 10:58 PM.

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