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Originally Posted By: Hal
Does anyone have a picture of one of those combustible muzzle-loader cartridges?



Clock Guns, Pauly Guns, Pinfire Guns and Pinfire Cartridges
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Mr. Newcomer, those are great pictures of what must be extremely rare items. Do you have photos of the Needham/Rigby type needlefire ammunition ?

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This was posted on the Reilly line but since the Lancaster "base-fire" system was contemporary to and competed with pin-fires (which won out ultimately), if Steve Nash doesn't mind, I'll post it here also for history.

Stephen Nash's incredibly interesting historical line on the early origin of pin-fires, led to a review of some 1860's Reilly's. The most interesting perhaps is 12boreman's 8 bore Reilly SxS shotgun, SN 14983, with both "New Oxford Street" and "Rue Scribe Paris" on the rib...the earliest extant Reilly with both the London and Paris addresses..making it serial-numbered surely circa February-March 1868. See P.16 of the Reilly line.

The key parts of the gun are the unique hammers and center-fire system:


In Diggory Hadoke's Vintagegunjournal on-line, there is this article about Lancaster:
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/ace-of-base-fire

The article discusses the well-known Lancaster "base fire" center-break, breech-loading system from the late 1850's, and the failure of a superior design because of greed -Lancastrer wanted to monopolize the sale of cartridges for his system.

Take a look at the "base-fire" Lancaster system. Does that not look something like the action on 12boreman's 8 bore Reilly made in 1868?



12boreman's gun is surely unique...a Lancaster "base-fire" design turned into a center-fire. What an interesting time in the history of gun-making.

One would suppose that with the Daw center-fire patent of 1861 (from the Frenchman Pottet), or even more significantly the:
.. 1) 1865 breaking of the Daw center-fire ammunition patent by Eley, and
.. 2) the 1866 revolutionary cartridge/shell primers introduced by American Berdan and a few months later by Edward Mounier Boxer in UK,
. that center-fires just immediately took over the market. Not so. Pin fires continued to dominate up to about 1872.

Last edited by Argo44; 07/19/20 10:02 AM.

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You can't have too many Lancasters, Argo44, thanks for posting. The Lancaster base-fire, sometimes referred to as the Lancaster needle-gun, was a true contemporary of the earliest British pinfires, and it pointed the way in which the British shotgun was to develop. The information that Argo44 refers to is correct and entertaining reading, especially the part about the proprietary cartridges killing the business. It also must have come to a shock to Lancaster and his customers that the base-fire, at 65 guineas the most expensive sporting gun in London, performed the worst in the Field Trials of 1858. It took me a while to understand that Lancaster's slide-and-drop action gun was also being built under a slightly modified design to use the early Pottet/Boxer or Schneider/Daw centre-fire cartridges. At first I thought these were simply converted base-fires, but no, these were built that way, concurrently with the base-fire. AaronN can tell us when the Pottet and Schneider cartridges first appeared in France, and as to the action designed for them, there is much history.

Albert Henri Marie Renette of Paris obtained a French patent in 1835 for a slide-and-tilt breech-loading action, presumably a capping-breechloader, close to the time Casimir Lefaucheux patented his hinge-action capping breechloading gun, which led the way to his pinfire invention in 1834 [text corrected 30/11/2020, as two earlier Renette 1820-dated patents might not be related to the 1835 patent]. In 1853 Renette's son-in-law and partner, Louis Julien Gastinne, obtained French patent No. 9058 for this breech action on a hammer gun, intended to use the new internally-primed Pottet/Schneider centerfire cartridges. The prolific patent agent Auguste Edouard Loradoux Bellford patented the design in Great Britain, receiving patent No. 2778 of 1853. This is the patent that was later assigned to Lancaster and first used for his base-fire cartridge, and the story behind "Charles Lancaster's Patent" marked on his base-fire and centrefire guns -- though the patent was never taken out in his name.

Here is a best quality 14-bore by Charles William Lancaster, made in 1858 (three years before the Daw gun, and concurrent with the base-fire and earliest pinfires) for Captain Henry John Bower, of the 4th (The King's Own Royal) Regiment of Foot. Gun number 3092 was one of a pair, with 30" fine damascus barrels with an extractor (the first British gun to have one), the top rib marked "Charles Lancaster 151 New Bond Str London. Patent Breech Loader", Lancaster's initials "CL" stamped under each barrel. The back-action locks were converted to rebound locks by Lancaster in 1894. Part of Louis Julien Gastinne's patent, for the extractor, was assigned to Lancaster in 1856. Note the size of the gap at the face when the lever is fully rotated, in partly necessary because of the acute (not 90 degree) angle of the breech face to the bar -- remarkable fitting work.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
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At first I thought it was a converted base-fire, as the strikers were was not of the conical form in Argo44's photographs, and the protruding pins fixing the striker assemblies seem an odd aesthetic choice. Then I was fortunate to come across number 3879, a 12-bore, built on the same pattern, made in 1864 for Sir Thales Pease KCB. It was recorded in the Lancaster order book as simply 'under-lever centre-fire', same as number 3092. Neither was a conversion from base-fire, both were early centrefires. In a testament to Charles Lancaster's barrel-making prowess, at some point it had undergone a nitro reproof, and it is now my favourite grouse gun.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Steve Nash; 02/03/21 04:40 PM. Reason: new information
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Back to pinfires, and we finally get to the famous 1864 Powell Lifter action, next in terms of significant snap-actions to appear. Thanks go to Steve Helsley for some of the historical details below. The errors are my own.

Guns by William Powell & Son of Birmingham are always well built, and this one is no exception. What makes this one of particular interest is that it has been converted to dual-fire with an extractor, strengthened hammers and the pin holes left unfilled, thus being able to use both pinfire and centrefire cartridges.

The Powell name goes back a long way in British gunmaking. The first William Powell started a gunmaking business in Birmingham with Joseph Simmons in 1802, and from 1812 he started selling under his own name. His son, also William, took over the business by 1841. The second William Powell had a son born in 1823, also named William (side note: naming the first son William is a common tradition amongst some family lines in Britain -- it is the case with my family, but being the second-born I escaped this practice). It is the third William Powell that is of interest to me. In 1847 at the age of 18 he was made a partner in the business and the firm's name changed to William Powell & Son.

In the 1861 census records William Powell described himself as a gun maker employing 6 men and 5 boys, which gives an idea of the size of the business. In the 1860s there were few large-scale gunmakers, mostly providing military contracts, and firms building sporting guns were often quite small. Some, and sometimes all, of the work on sporting guns would be done by outworkers providing specific parts, such as locks, or doing specific tasks, such as jointing actions or fitting stocks. While all gun makers were able to build a complete gun (a requirement to becoming a member of the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers), in day-to-day business most did only part of the work themselves, such as putting everything together and finishing, and making proprietary designs. It makes me smile when I read descriptions of early breech-loaders that include the term factory-this or factory-that -- when the "factory" probably wasn't bigger than my kitchen, and with less light. But I digress...

William Powell became a Guardian of the Birmingham Proof House in 1855, a post he held until he died in 1905. In the course of his life he registered a number of important patents. The one illustrated here is his very successful Patent No. 1163 (May 1864), for a rotating bolt single bite snap action with a lift-up top lever and transverse pivot behind the action face, which locked against the barrel lump which extended rearwards from the barrels into the action face. This patent was successful for both pinfire and centrefire hammer guns, with some of these actions being supplied to the trade and appearing on other makers' guns. Approximately 750 patent action pinfires were made, out of about 2000 hammer guns built based on this patent in the following 25 years, accounting for much of the firm's business. The lift-up lever continued on their hammerless guns until 1922, approximately 3000 more guns. The lifter action quickly became popular, with two guns sold in 1864, 70 in 1865 and 100 in 1866. This also gives an idea of the scale of a "successful" sporting gun maker in Britain -- compared to American factories turning out thousands of machine-made guns a year. A bespoke maker selling 100 game guns in a year was doing very well indeed.

Many Powell records prior to 1858 have not survived, so it is not possible to know exactly when William Powell first built breech-loaders, but he built pinfire game guns from at least 1859, and the first documented record is the sale of two 16-bore guns August 7, 1860 to Mr Owen Powell, noted earlier in this thread. Powell built his first centrefire breechloader in 1867, and by 1870 Powell was marketing both pinfire and centrefire guns (though probably selling many more of the latter than the former). It is important to remember that pinfires and centrefires were sold and used concurrently in the 1860s, it wasn't a case of makers stopping to make one for the other. Some shooters preferred the pinfire, which offered advantages such as being able to tell easily if the gun had shells in the chambers (by the protruding pin). There was also the matter of availability of cartridges, something we don't think much about nowadays.

The latter point is of relevance to this gun, which was built as a pinfire then converted to dual-fire, to be able to fire either cartridge type. Towards the end of the pinfire period, in the late 1860s and early 1870s, some thought it was a good idea to be able to use both -- because it was not yet certain that the centrefire would prevail (I suppose like some people didn't think the Internet was going to amount to much...). In the case of this gun, converted in 1890, this seems very late, but the owner would have had his reasons.

Gun no. 3690 was first completed on 9 November 1866 for H. W. Lord, who may have been Henry William Lord, barrister and Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge. However, something happened and this name was crossed out in the company ledger, and the gun was renumbered and sold again on 16 December 1869 under serial number 3790 to "J.B. Dellap", listed as "best patent breech loader, best damascus barrels, 30 in., 7 lb." for £27.50. I believe the original owner was James Bogle Delap of Lillingstone Lovell, Buckinghamshire (born 1847). He was the great nephew of Colonel James Bogle Delap of Monellan, Ireland, whose family wealth came from Jamaican and West Indies sugar plantations. He would have been around 22 at the time of picking up his Powell.

The gun is a good representation of Powell's best offerings, and the conversion was carried out by Powell in 1890. Signs of the conversion are the extractor (not necessary on a pinfire, and in any case pinfire shells had little or no rims), the action bar with recesses cut for the extractor, centrefire strikers fitted to the breech, and metal added to the stems of the hammers to strike the strikers. Unfortunately the cuts on the action bar have obliterated the patent use number, which would have identified how many lifter actions Powell had made up until that point.

Usually conversions were straightforward, though dual-fire guns are rare -- perhaps for good reason. The idea is clever, but how it worked in practice is open for speculation. Would the unsupported base of the pinfire cartridge rupture? Would the strikers uselessly dent the pinfire cartridge base and make the gun difficult to open? Might gases escape from split centrefire cases through the pin-holes? I've not fired the gun, as it is slightly off face, and pinfire cartridges are rare enough.

The gun is in reasonable condition, but it has obviously had much use. Some wood has been replaced near the hinge, not uncommon in bar-in-wood guns. Thin wood on a gun firing thousands of rounds a season is a recipe for cracks and chips.

As a final note, it has been devilishly difficult to find a Powell & Son in the original pinfire configuration. I can only ascribe this difficulty to the soundness of their construction and therefore being good candidates for conversion to centrefire without spoiling the looks of the gun. Like Westley Richards pinfires, I expect, most Powell pinfires were converted to centrefire, and used afield for many more years.

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Last edited by Steve Nash; 02/03/21 04:42 PM. Reason: Clarification and correction
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Steve, this is the most amazing line I've read on DGS and you have an incredible collection. It is history, art, gun-smithing, and personalities. Please continue to post. I am compelled to start digging into the UK 19th century press as soon as one of your guns is written about.

Last edited by Argo44; 07/19/20 07:30 PM.

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Westley Richards again, this time with a snap action with a lateral thumb lever - it looks quite modern!

William Westley Richards's son Westley Richards took over the firm in 1840, four years after Casimir Lefaucheux patented his pinfire cartridge in France. It took a further 18 years before Westley Richards built his first breech-loader, a pinfire, in 1858. In 1862 Westley Richards patented his doll's head and crab-joint gun with the straight-pull top-lever, which I've already covered in this thread. Westley Richards then improved his design by having a laterally-pivoting lever do the same work with less effort, and this pivoting top-lever action was given the patent Number 2623 in October 1864, a month before Abraham Lincoln was re-elected.

From the maker's records, gun number 3509, a breech-loader, was ordered by W. H. Todd on June 27th 1866 and delivered on September 17th. I am fairly certain the gun started as a pinfire. The gun has the centre-fire strikers that Westley Richards developed in 1866 (patent Number 1960), but these were apparently added after the gun was made, as evidenced by the partially obliterated "Westley Richards Patent" markings on the breech face.

One of the problems that very early centre-fire guns had was that hammers at full rest would press against the strikers and risk setting off the centre-fire cartridges if the gun was loaded and the barrels were closed smartly. Westley Richards kept the long-nosed hammers of the pinfire on his centre-fire guns, forcing the user to put the hammers at half-cock in order to open the gun for loading (something that was no longer necessary once the rebounding lock was invented). This safety measure meant that Westley Richards guns of pre-1870 manufacture could be pinfires, dual-fires, centre-fires with pinfire hammers, or conversions from pinfire to centre-fire done by the firm, and all would look pretty similar. What complicates the history of this particular gun is that it has rebounding locks of the type patented by John Stanton. As the earliest Stanton rebounding locks appeared in 1867-1869 and were only commonplace after 1870, that modification to the locks was done after the gun was first delivered. It could be the conversion to centrefire was done then, or it was just an improvement added to an earlier conversion, or even a very early centre-fire gun with pinfire hammers. I wish I could say for certain, but rarely is anything certain in 19th century British guns.

Back to the gun. It is a 12-bore pivoting top-lever snap-action sporting gun, and the 30" damascus barrels carry three sets of Birmingham proofs. To make sure there is no confusion as to who made the gun, the barrels and fore-end iron carry the "WR" mark. The top rib is signed "Patent" and "Westley Richards 170 New Bond St London," and the barrels have an extractor fitted to the breech, numbered to the gun. The bottom breech ends of barrels are left rounded, and bedded against the rounded action body. The top-lever is signed "Westley Richards Patent". It of course has the signature doll's head fastening system and bar-in-wood construction with the "crab joint". The hammers are typically flat-sided (another house style), the fences are beautifully sculptured, and while the well-figured stock is chequered at the hand, the fore-end was left smooth. The fore-end has nice details, with silver cross-key ovals and a carved horn finial. The gun has only line border engraving, which would have been a special request -- the gun itself is quite striking in form, and doesn't need additional adornment. The barrels still have mirror bores, and the gun weighs 7 lb 4 oz.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
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Note the striker and extractor work, and the detail in adding a dimple in the action bar for the extractor screw.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

William Westley Richards died in 1865, and Westley Richards retired in 1872. He enjoyed his retirement for another 25 years, something I very much hope to do.

William Henry Wilson-Todd of Tranby Park, Yorkshire, was born in 1828. In The Illustrated London News of September 19, 1868, it was reported that it was hopeful W. H. Todd would be the Conservative candidate for Darlington in the parliamentary election. He skipped that election, and in the 1885 election he lost to the Liberal candidate. He was successful in the 1892 general election, as William Henry Wilson-Todd, becoming the MP for Howdenshire, East Yorkshire, until stepping down in 1903 a year before his death. He was made a baronet of Halnaby Hall, Yorkshire, in 1903, by then his full title was Sir William Henry Wilson-Todd, 1st Baronet.

Last edited by Steve Nash; 02/03/21 04:43 PM.
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Here's a Westley Richards, close in serial range to Mr. Nash's gun. This one is still in original pinfire design. I had at one time wondered if the "crab Knuckle" stock design by Westley Richards was a result or solution to using much of the original muzzle loading wood for breechloading conversions. I guess this gun , in original pinfire configuration , sort of disproves my guess.
















Last edited by Daryl Hallquist; 07/21/20 10:54 AM.
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Beautiful condition on that Westley Daryl!


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That Westley Richards really is in good shape, Daryl, thanks for posting it. I hope readers of this thread will pull out any pinfires lurking in their collections and post pictures and information on them.

Here's the second to last of the snap actions from me, a gun with the S&J Law Patent No 1276 of May 1865, with one of the first snap side-levers. This patent is interesting, as no examples are pictured in Crudgington & Baker's The British Shotgun. However, the real question is whether this gun was from a real gun-making company, or was it just part of a stock swindle...?

With the growing popularity of the pinfire system in Britain in the mid-1860s, a number of new gunmaking firms appeared to fill the demand. One of these was the Breechloading Armoury Company Limited of London, selling guns from their fashionable 4 Pall Mall address for only a short period between 1866 and 1868. One of their guns is shown here, a distinctive twelve-bore game gun with bar-action locks and a slender side-lever to release the breech. The hammers are nicely sculptured, and the thick fences, the radius cut between the action bar and the breech face, and the long action bar are typical features of a later pinfire gun built for improved strength. The top rib is signed "The Breech Loading Armoury Company Limited 4 Pall Mall London", the gun is London proofed, it has 29 5/8" damascus barrels, the bores are fair with moderate pitting, and the gun weights 6 lb 12 oz.

The gun has a high serial number (10244) for a gun produced by a new company that lasted less than three years. This, together with the fact that the firm's name is lacking from the lock plates, suggests that the gun was obtained from an established gunmaker or supplier, with only the company's name added to the top rib. But more on this most peculiar company later.

The very unusual action is a single-bite snap-action worked by a side lever, using part of Stephen and Joseph Law's provisional patent number 2063 of 1865. The original patent belonging to these Wolverhampton gunmakers was for an ingenious design that would release the barrel locking bolt by pulling one of the hammers at half cock. The patent included a pivoting locking bolt whose rounded free end engaged a hook-like barrel lump, with a vertical V-spring applying tension against the bolt. This is the locking system used on this gun, and the action flats are stamped with the inscription "Law Bros Patent." The slender side-lever, when pressed downwards, rotates and disengages the locking bolt. This is slightly different from the patent specification, but it may be that the Law brothers' hammer-release design was too difficult to build or too fragile for heavy use, and was never really implemented. In practice the action works well, though the downward throw required to release the barrels is quite long and, coupled with the fragile build of the lever, one can only speculate as to how many of these levers might have been bent or broken off during a hectic pheasant drive.

Another feature of this particular gun is that it is dual fire, being able to use either pinfire or centrefire cartridges. During the transitional period between the pin-fire and the centre-fire when centre-fire cartridges were still difficult to obtain, some believed such a gun offered the best solution. It appears this gun was built as a dual fire gun, as opposed to being later modified, from the elaborate extractor mechanism. The two-piece strikers appear based on Thomas George Sylven's 1866 patent. Two holes are drilled into the breech face for each barrel, one vertical and one horizontal, meeting inside the breech face. One striker fits in the vertical hole, while the other striker slides in the horizontal hole. The upper striker is retained by a locking screw at the rear of the action, while the horizontal striker is kept in place by a plug fitted flush against the breech face. Upon being struck by the hammer, the first striker moves downwards and its angled tip transfers its energy to the second striker, which moves forward and explodes the cap. Should a pinfire cartridge be inserted instead, the hammer nose would strike the pin and explode the charge before the hammer would reach the centre-fire striker. The gun does not carry Sylven's mark, so it is unclear whether this is Sylven's work, or if this was done by another gunsmith. The centrefire cartridge soon became as readily available as the pin cartridge, and the need for dual-ignition guns disappeared.

The story of the company is quite interesting. It starts with Bertram Calisher and William Terry's capping-breechloader carbine of 1856. It had a very limited service use with the British 18th Hussars from 1859 to 1864, after which the same rifles were re-issued to the Cape Mounted Rifles, until 1870. In addition, some rifles were built by these Birmingham gunmakers for sporting use. In April 1865 Calisher and Terry sold their London and Birmingham premises and patents to a new concern, which was to operate under the name The Breech Loading Armoury Company. The new company was incorporated in May 1865. It aimed to build and market the carbine and other guns, and offered a prospectus to attract investors, making available 6,000 shares at £25 each. The Chairman of the new company was Rear-Admiral Mark John Currie, who had played a significant role in the exploration of Australia and the foundation of the Swan River Colony, later named Western Australia. However, in July 1866 a shareholder took the company to court, accusing it of fraud. While the role or responsibility of the company directors in the matter was never established, the court saw fit to order the winding down of the company in July 1866. In court it was shown that the prospectus shown to investors had a number of gross misstatements -- such as the Calisher & Terry rifles built by the company had been approved and adopted by the government and supplied to the cavalry forces (the British government had only agreed to a trial of the rifles); English, French, American, Austrian and Belgian patents had been obtained (only one English patent had been obtained); several large payments had been made to the company (none had been made); and that 35,000 rifles had been supplied to the Government of New Zealand (which was not the case). Lord Romilly, the judge in the case, stated "I must confess that the statements in the prospectus of this company are beyond anything the worst I have ever met with. The mis-statements are the most wanton I ever saw."

Internet and publication searches tell us that in the short time the company operated, it marketed Calisher & Terry rifles and Beaumont-Adams revolvers which carry the Breechloading Armoury Company name, and, from the example pictured here, at least one sporting gun! While the Terry carbine was a good design, it was never adapted to metallic cartridge use, and was simply superseded by better centre-fire cartridge rifles. The actual maker of the gun pictured here is likely to remain unknown, and if anyone out there has ever seen another Law Bros action, or Breech Loading Armoury Company sporting gun, I'd sure like to hear about it. How a little-used patent appeared on a well-made gun likely built on contract to a company that just retailed the gun is a mystery. Was it a special request? A marketing attempt, to attract clients? Investors? Why use such a little-known patent, when so many others were better, and readily available? The lack of any others turning up makes it impossible to tell.

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Last edited by Steve Nash; 02/03/21 04:45 PM.
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