doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Leopold’s Rifle

TW:
“about those tails that Mr. Leopold is wearing ?”

Leopold and friends spent a lot of time using their rifles on the woodchuck and I would suspect, but don’t know for sure they are woodchuck tails.


“and the rear elevator/height adjustor for the scope I can easily understand, but how did the front mount pivot? Do you know?”

One of the best scope makers of the day was John W. Sidle and I believe the scope on his rifle is a Sidle. There was a “Leopold Snap Shot” scope made by Sidle named for him so that may be what that one is. There were a lot of mounts back then and Sidle did make a figure “8” front but the one in the picture looks like wire or rubber bands , not something I have seen before.


”and the cartridge the Borchardt is chambered for? Were you lucky enough to get the cartridge or was Dr. Baker using more than one as it would appear his counterparts were. Is that a cartridge bag he is carrying?”

Most likely a cartridge bag he has as all the others seem to be loaded down with ammo. Every year they went to New York to shoot Woodchucks.
The rifle is chambered for the .25-Niedner known today as the .25 Krag, a 30-40 Krag necked down to .25 caliber.

Super post; a little OT, but I have a stinkin' suspicion that more than a few of us double enthusiasts are also SS nuts... I'm always bemused that this area (Eastern NY state and adjacent Vermont) were such a hotbed of rifle experimenters and theorists back at the beginning of the last century. That all seemed to have moved West by the 2nd world war, following the defense industries. But I still shoot chucks up by Shushan at least once a summer, with a .22 Hornet that would have been a familiar ctg to these guys (in a Win SS or a Ruger #1).

Michael, is your .25 Neidner/.25 Krag the short version or the full length? Not just a varmint ctg. either; good as a .257 with right bullets! Lovely rifle!

“Super post; a little OT”

Mike, Thanks, Yes it is, however as a young lad A.O. Niedner was allowed to shoot William R. Schaefer’s (the celebrated double gunmaker of Boston) muzzleloading rifle and that was how he first got interested in firearms. There are very few places on the web to discuss historical rifles so I would hope that we could now and then touch on the subject. Even the DGJ is now the DG&SSJ.


All four lived in the Boston area, shot at the famous Walnut Hill Club and traveled to Shushan to shoot woodchucks at least once a year. Dr. Baker had a ‘Woodchuck Reserve” that he spent a lot of time at.


”Michael, is your .25 Neidner/.25 Krag the short version or the full length?”

This rifle was modified by Niedner in 1911 and it uses the full length 30-40 case which was pretty much standardized by then. I have one of Mr. Niedner’s rifles (model 1911) and it’s chambered for the same cartridge. I had a Winchester High-Wall that belonged to Dr. Mann for a 1909 version of the cartridge, the case acted like a breech seater and the outside diameter of the case was .257”. It also has a set of Mann-Niedner bases soldered to the barrel, I still have the barrel but used the high-wall for a different project.

The picture of Leopold with the tails, the rifle he has looks like it’s chambered for the .28-30-.22 Niedner or .28-30-.23 Niedner but have not idea which, Niedner made both.

What an interesting rifle that Borchardt is! It looks like he extended the striker back through the end of the block like a bolt rifle. I wonder what he had in mind there? To be able to cock the rifle with after the breech is closed? Adding all that mass to the striker seems a high price to pay for whatever intended benefit.

I would really like to examine the double set trigger as well.

Thanks for posting the picture.

Glenn

Wouldn't we all. Then we would pay you vast sums to install them in our Borchardts.....

(exactly zero sarcasm there. A bunch of us would kill for those triggers).

Brent

I want a picture of myself and hunting partners that rivals the group photo Michael posted, damn, those guy look good!

Somehow neither camo, nor tweeds look as manly.

Michael, thanks for the pictures and info. I second the recommendation of Michaels latest book.

Rob

Niedner removed the cocking cams from the Borchardt and made a new breechblock. In order to install the double-set-triggers the safety had to be removed. This is fine on a target rifle but not one used in the field. It’s a little hard to explain but the firing pin is inside of the striker and very light weight, I have no way to measure the lock time but it is very FAST and safe to carry with a loaded chamber. For the work on this rifle Niedner (from Niedner’s Malden, MA shop books) charged Dr. Baker $108.50.

It’s been a while since the last time I had this rifle apart. I wrote this back in 1993 about the rifle.

‘When the lever is lowered a cam on the lever retracts the firing pin a short distance from the fired primer; after the action is closed, the cocking knob must be pulled back before it can be fired. The cocking piece that holds the firing pin is hollow and weighs less than half of the original Borchardt firing pin, resulting in a very fast lock time.”

Mp are those turkey beards around his neck ?
What do you suppose that is stuck in his belt in the top picture ?

I assumed they were woodchuck tails but have no way to know for sure.


What do you suppose that is stuck in his belt in the top picture ? The same thing that’s in Dr. Mann’s hand a Niedner-Shooting stick. As time allows I will post pictures to better explain them.