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When I was nearly 60 I was totally blinded in my right eye due to a botched surgery. I was heavily right eyed dominant and had shot from my right side since learning to shoot at age 6 or 7. Obviously had to switch over to the left. That took a couple of years and maybe (?) 2000 rounds before I was back to my previous skill level. Clays were easy to adjust to, game birds not so much. Picking a single out of a covey was ( is ) suddenly rather difficult, took much longer to get on a bird, etc. I also found shooting a SxS tougher due to just enough view being obscured by the wider muzzles so I sold them and shoot O/Us exclusively. I also found that recoil seemed to be much, much more noticeable, bruised hell out of middle finger, etc. Had never had either problem before. Depth perception is not an issue at all. The BIG problem was and still is if I don't carry the gun exclusively with my left hand already grasping the grip ready to shoot I will still try and mount the gun to my right shoulder. Old habits die hard.

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The list of things I tried to get over my flinch is very long. I tried a Hydra-coil stock thinking recoil was the problem. Changed gun fit, changed to semi autos, tube set, pump gun and side by side. Tried to a combination of custom ear plugs with ear muffs to reduce noise being told it was noise as a trigger. Tried five or six different tube sets. Switched from 28" to 26" to 30" and then 32" barrels. Tried a sight blinder to prevent cross firing. Removed the sights completely. Stopped shooting everything but .410 for everything. Tried shooting with only one eye open. Tried a spot on my non master lens to block that eye from seeing the bird when shooting. Went to several shooting coaches for help. Learned to use my middle finger instead of my index finger as the trigger finger. Tried shooting with a gun mounted, semi mounted and even from below the hip at the call. Learned to shoot from the hip without mounting the gun. Got fairly good that way but that was more trick shooting than a fix.

Then I stopped shooting for almost a year. My flinch was waiting for me when I returned. With nothing to lose I tried left handed. To be honest it was not that hard but I knew if I flinched left handed I was done. A .410 is effortless to shoot. After two years I tried shooting right handed again. The flinch was gone for the most part. Might show up once in a hundred.

Only when I tried to shoot at a exact spot on the field and failed to see the proper sight picture did I flinch. I practiced riding birds well past my normal shooting points so that I could chase them down well across the field, even all the way to the landing point in some cases. After that I learned how to withhold fire on my flinches and just ride them out.

Stan, my flinches followed me into the field. It was not recoil which was the entire cause but more a problem with not seeing the proper sight picture when my mind wanted to pull the trigger. I did not hunt for four or five years. Just by chance this was about the time the State released wild turkeys on my land with out telling me. My quail restoration, which had taken 20 years and almost six figures, collapsed in less than two years. I went from 13-20 coveys of birds every year, across four separate farms, to one or two in even the best years. My flinch for the most part never returned and neither have the quail.

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Release triggers are easier than pull triggers for me. I can shoot pull triggers, but I do flinch on occasion. I flinch rarely (less) with a release. Im talking clays in terms of RT. I hunt with pull triggers. Its easy to go back and forth, just as easy as going from a DT to a ST. It just takes some familiarity. Perazzi MX-8 guns make it easy to pop triggers in and out. Theres a difference with release triggers too. Some are way more smooth than others. Flinching is a complex thing. I have some eye disease problems and Im sure my flinch is a visual flinch more related to what my brain perceived (or didnt perceive) as a result of the vision. Recoil may play some role, Im not sure. However, when I was an avid skeet shooter in my youth, I shot mainly .410 to practice. When I got older, I flinched with .410 with pull triggers. I couldnt even pull the trigger sometimes. So, does recoil have anything to do with my flinch? A release has solved most of that for me. I have a friend who is an excellent sporting shot who shoots a release. He flinches so bad he cant even set the release trigger at times. Its a bizarre phenomenon. Doctors call it a dystonia. My bud now sets a release with his 3rd (middle) finger and is again having more success. Its all very odd. Don Currie, chief NSCA instructor calls release triggers a gimmick or he did at least on a podcast. I beg to differ. Not all of the thousands of Trapshooters who shoot a release can be wrong?? confused


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As one who also battled a flinch I can relate to a lot of what you went through, Jon. I've never shot skeet or trap much. Could probably count the total rounds of both combined on my fingers and toes. However, my competitive sporting clays shooting has spanned some 20+ years, I guess. I worked hard at improving, and did. But, I soon developed a flinch that manifested itself in an inability to pull the trigger when my conscious thought wanted to. It was as though there was a short circuit between my brain and my trigger finger.

I was flabbergasted, and embarrassed, at such a thing happening to me. After all, I had shot doves since I was 8 years old and had never known such a thing. I developed the ability to recover from it and break the bird extremely late, often almost on the ground, over half the times I flinched, which at it's worst would be 8-9 times per round of 100. I knew in my mind it wasn't recoil, as I was shooting light 1 oz. loads in an 8 lb. + gun, a 32" Valmet 412ST. It had a trigger that drove me nuts, however, with much slack that had to be taken up before it would break. That was a terrible distraction to me and I tried to have it "fixed", to no avail. But, my flinches never followed me into the field ........... never. I began to reason out what you said, that my mind was not accepting the sight picture that my eyes saw as being right, and wouldn't pull the trigger.

A couple of things happened about that time that effected a change in my flinch. I began shooting a buddy's Beretta 682, which I loved shooting, and which had a great trigger. I also switched from 1 oz. loads to 1 1/8 oz., with an associated slight increase in recoil. The flinch suddenly got much better. Most of my problem seemed to be with the distraction of the sloppy trigger (I had been a competitive rifle and pistol shooter most of my adult life, and obsessed over good triggers). Another thing that helped was to start "slapping" the trigger, as opposed to just pulling it. This was at the suggestion of a good friend I shot with regularly who suggested it. These things helped tremendously, proving that it was not recoil related because of the increase in recoil from the new loads. When I started shooting the MX8, with it's fabulous trigger, it got even better. I punched into M class at the US Open in 2010, which had been a goal of mine.

The old flinch rears it's ugly head occasionally, still, though it's 99.5% gone. It still surprises me maybe once every 200-300 targets at sporting. Happened yesterday in a little registered shoot at Pinetucky, and cost me a bird. Though I shot pretty well, finishing with a 95 X 100, that flinch cost me one. My shooting buddy would have beat me anyway, as he smoked his way through the course with a 97 X 100. I subtly remind him when he beats me that he does so shooting lots of targets with his -.005" to +.010" screw-in chokes, while I shoot everything with fixed .020"s in both barrels. He then reminds me that my choice of tight chokes all the time is my decision, and that I'm hardheaded for doing so. grin All in good fun.

Thanks for relating your struggles with the flinch. It is interesting all that you tried to get rid of it, and how it finally got better. I have empathy for someone when I see them flinching badly shooting a shotgun. It is a terrible malady. I admire you for having had the determination to go to the off hand to try to rid yourself of it. I stand in awe of you and Ted, and others who have successfully done so. I cannot imagine what a hard thing it would be for me.

Best, SRH

buzz, read your above post after posting mine. Currie needs to tell Jon Kruger that a release trigger is a gimmick. I'd like to be a fly on the wall and hear Jon's reply when he did. I once asked Jon if he would help me with my flinch. He replied "Who the hell is going to help me with mine?!!" He went to the release a few years later and says he should have done so many years earlier. Jon has even another unusual way of using his, he doesn't even set the release until he sees the bird.


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btdtst #577363 08/09/20 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: btdtst
When I was nearly 60 I was totally blinded in my right eye due to a botched surgery. I was heavily right eyed dominant and had shot from my right side since learning to shoot at age 6 or 7. Obviously had to switch over to the left. That took a couple of years and maybe (?) 2000 rounds before I was back to my previous skill level. Clays were easy to adjust to, game birds not so much. Picking a single out of a covey was ( is ) suddenly rather difficult, took much longer to get on a bird, etc. I also found shooting a SxS tougher due to just enough view being obscured by the wider muzzles so I sold them and shoot O/Us exclusively. I also found that recoil seemed to be much, much more noticeable, bruised hell out of middle finger, etc. Had never had either problem before. Depth perception is not an issue at all. The BIG problem was and still is if I don't carry the gun exclusively with my left hand already grasping the grip ready to shoot I will still try and mount the gun to my right shoulder. Old habits die hard.


You have nailed exactly what I am going through. Every fiber of my being SCREAMS at me to change hands, the recoil seems more stout, and my hand hurts when it is all over, especially my middle finger. It is a perceived recoil thing, as there is no bruising on my right shoulder, what the gun is generating just bothers me more on the right shoulder. I never dealt with that before shooting left handed, although, I did shy away from 3 and big numbers ammunition due to recoil.

Might go run 25 today, Im thinking more rounds spread out is better than running 50-100 and not shooting again until the next weekend.

Hoping for better.

Best,
Ted

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I am cross eye dominant (left hand right eye) and didnt get it diagnosed until my mid 30s. Shot sporadically until the last few years and shooting right handed is now second nature. I found I had to learn good habits and ditch the bad. I used to cant my head onto the stock in a vain attempt to line up my eyes; now shooting right handed my eye is my rear sight and I can bring the stock to my face without unnecessary movement of my head. Keep at it Ted, I think the change is well worth it. Lots of gun mounts at home helped me get more comfortable with the switch.

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I am going to practice my mount at home. I feel silly doing it, but, many have reported that it helps.
The change should be well worth it, true enough, but, from where I stand today, it isnt optional. I cant see well enough from my left eye to shoot with it anymore. If I want to shoot a shotgun, or, a rifle, it will have to be right handed.

Best,
Ted

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I tried a release trigger. God bless those who like them. I was not one of them. The worst one I borrowed was a release trigger which had been setup as release on the first shot and non release on the second shot. To me that was the worst of both worlds. It was a trap shooter who had that setup, he said for trap doubles. I gave it back after a single round. A release trigger to me was not something I was happy using because it went against decades of gun safety that I had learned.

Stan, bad triggers are not to be put up with. But my triggers were never the real problem. I had 3200's, K-32, K-80, Perazzi, Kolars, plus an assortment of 1100's, 11-87, Model 12 and 42's. A couple had heavy triggers. If the triggers were not great when I started out I had a great trigger man near me. He knew more about triggers than I will ever understand. Shame cancer took him early. He could make a trigger glass smooth and crisp with what ever pull weight you wanted. He did it for my with hand guns, shot guns and rifles.

My flinch, I think was a problem when I did not see the proper sight picture, when I was ready to pull the trigger. Recoil was not a problem because I wen to shooting .410 only. It became a muscle memory problem, with the flinch a condition muscle response to a visual picture. Sounds more complex than it is really. I had perfected my flinch by the time I figured out why I was flinching. That is why learning how to shoot left handed did not have the same muscle memory and hence no flinch problem. After not shooting right handed for several years the muscle memory was almost completely forgotten or unlearned. It has not returned for the most part. I hope it never does.

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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
I am going to practice my mount at home. I feel silly doing it, but, many have reported that it helps....

Just a thought, but consider eye exercises to go along with it. A good thirty years ago, I used a book to do tracking and dominant eye exercises at a time when I did a good bit of trap shooting. I still keep the basic principals in mind and not just for shooting. I have regular thought of seeing if there is updated info on the subject and revisit some of the exercises. Again, just a thought.

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