November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Who's Online
2 registered (Oldmodel70, 1 invisible), 4 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13917 Members
10 Forums
35057 Topics
491861 Posts

Max Online: 462 @ 08/05/16 09:13 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#577317 - 08/08/20 06:54 PM Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT)
gil russell Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 1412
Loc: Southwest
Early Model 12 16 ga (1916 chambered for 2 9/16" shells) with ejection port at 2.43". Is the only needed alteration most likely to be lengthening the port? I measured an early 12 ga (2 3/4" chamber) and that port is 2.612". So both of the ports are shorter than their respective (fired) case length. Thanks! Gil
_________________________
[IMG]

Top
#577353 - 08/09/20 08:29 AM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
Run With The Fox Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 7136
Loc: Michigan
My guess, as I own and shoot 7 Model 12's- ranging from a skeet grade M12 28 gauge to several 3" Mag 12's-- the plastic hulls didn't really get rolling until the late 1950's, from 1912 to about 1957- paper hulls were the norm- and the softer opened up crimp folds most likely cleared the front radius of the receiver ejection port when the gun was cycled. The oldest M12 I own and shoot is a 1921 mfg. field grade 12 gauge 28" full plain barrel nickel steel (same analysis basically as the later Winchester Proof Steel-that was just another marketing ploy by WRA--) and it has 2&3/4" chambers-std. for the 12 gauges since 1916--

A hunting pal has a 16 gauge field grade made in the same time frame as my 12 nickel steel M12- no chamber length marked, he shoots Federal 16 plastic hulls in it all day long, no problemo.

RWTF
_________________________
When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8

Top
#577358 - 08/09/20 09:48 AM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
dogon Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 507
Loc: Denver,co.
I just treat my first year model 12 16ga just like I do my short chambered SxS's and shoot RST's in it. I see no reason to alter the gun to have it usable & effective.

Top
#577360 - 08/09/20 09:57 AM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: dogon]
Der Ami Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 3562
Loc: East Alabama
Unless I am mistaken ( I often am), the Brownell book has instructions for conversion to 2 3/4", together with procedures for conversion of the Browning Auto5.
Mike

Top
#577361 - 08/09/20 10:04 AM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
Ted Schefelbein Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 8146
Loc: mpls, mn.
I’ve seen 16 gauge model 12s that had the conversion still act fussy with 2 3/4” ammunition. The stuff produced today is contemptibly cheap, especially in 16 gauge, which, seems like an afterthought to most ammunition manufacturers.
Dogon is right. Just leave it be, and step up your ammunition.

Best,
Ted

Top
#577362 - 08/09/20 10:07 AM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
Drew Hause Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 8045
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
Possibly runs could provide evidence of his assertion that "nickel steel (same analysis basically as the later Winchester Proof Steel-that was just another marketing ploy by WRA)"

Winchester Proof Steel
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=573709

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=561800

Nickel Steel
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=563901


Top
#577374 - 08/09/20 11:31 AM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: Drew Hause]
Researcher Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 5534
Loc: WA/AK
Quote:
the plastic hulls didn't really get rolling until the late 1950's,


DuPont (Remington & Peters) began offering their plastic SP shells in 12-gauge in late 1960. By 1962 they had added 10-, 16- and 20-gauge plastic shells. The Olins (Winchester & Western) introduced their Super-Speed and Super-X in "Compression-Formed" and their Ranger and Xpert in "Poly-Formed" in 12-, 16- and 20-gauges in 1964.

Top
#577387 - 08/09/20 01:19 PM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
Mark II Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 736
The current length of the 16 ga hull is quite variable. Remingtons are usually the shortest. and Fiochis on the longer end. The softness of the hull and how forcefully you work the action can make a big difference in the outcome.

Top
#577410 - 08/09/20 06:25 PM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
gil russell Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 1412
Loc: Southwest
Update: So I cut some hulls to 2.53" or so. Ran a few empties through it and lo and behold, the gun operated and they ejected OK. So I loaded some up using card wads and wax to seal the ends up for now.
I hope to fire those this week. My thought is to eventually use hulls cut to the shorter length and use a roll crimper with cards for a better result. I'll report back. I'm sure many of you are in suspense....
_________________________
[IMG]

Top
#577411 - 08/09/20 06:31 PM Re: Early Model 12 Win/ 16 ga Question (OT) [Re: gil russell]
Replacement Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 3291
Have you tried firing factory 2-3/4" shells in this gun? I have an unmodified short chamber M12 16ga, and it handles Win Super X field loads just fine.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2019 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.