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#580330 - 09/21/20 10:33 AM Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing
82nd Trooper Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 03/19/19
Posts: 74
I believe this model is a Western Arms by way of a Lefever/Ithaca and sold by Montgomery Ward and all parts are there..

When test firing the gun would not fire. Not much of a mark on the primers. I was using modern Federal ammo. The firing pins hit hard with a nice dent against a piece of pine when the triggers are pulled. The right trigger has a solid thud sound when released but the left side has almost a hollow sound to it but both make dents in the wood. I had this issue with a single shot and switched to paper loads and it fired. I have not tried paper loads yet because I'd like to correct this issue.

It also has automatic ejectors but they only extract upon firing. This guy's parts look almost like a Lefever Nitro Special which makes sense with the Ithaca background.

I look forward to any help.
Scott

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#580358 - 09/21/20 04:02 PM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
builder Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2004
Loc: New Jersey
Automatic ejectors normally only eject a fired shell which of course is now a hull.

Have you checked to see if you have a broken firing pin.

You might also try switching ammo. Try modern Remington or Winchester ammo. Target ammo from Walmart or similar store might have different primers than the regular stock. I have had an occasional failure to fire with a modern Browning O/U with Federal ammo from Walmart.
_________________________
So many guns, so little time!

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#580366 - 09/21/20 07:21 PM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
82nd Trooper Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 03/19/19
Posts: 74
Thanks builder I did check both firing pins and used snap caps to check the automatic ejector. I'll try with different ammo just to see the next time I'm at the range.

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#580386 - 09/22/20 08:20 AM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
Run With The Fox Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 7152
Loc: Michigan
Might also be the rim cut on the rh barrel is a few thou. deeper than on the left bl. If the ejectors are in time, both shells should pop out after firing when you crack open the breech- You might want to slide out the luggers from the breech tunnel and clean all that area with Hoppe's- and put the flats of the luggers on a flat Arkansas sone and remove any burrs- akso check the tunnel with a Q-tip for any burrs or debris-- Rim might be a shade thicker on the older paper hulls, allowing the shell to sit in the rim cut to give positive contact with the firing pin.

Never owned a LeFever Nitro or any of its clones, but, like the NID Ithaca, they are a very solid and well designed utility shotgun. RWTF
_________________________
When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8

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#580391 - 09/22/20 09:50 AM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
82nd Trooper Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 03/19/19
Posts: 74
RWTF-thanks for your input and I will check that out.

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#580603 - 09/25/20 08:10 PM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
Kutter Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 1653
It might be the cocking rod(s) that are hanging up inside the frame. MAybe they are being held back a little by the trip in the ejector system.

They run from the front to the back of the frame (thinking it's the same as the NitroSpecial).

Checking the firingpin strike w/a wooden block I take it you have the bbls off.
The forend is also removed of course.

The hammer(s) can drop and when they do they are supposed to push the cocking rods forward and push the cocking arm out.

With the bbls and the forend off, perhaps any resistance is low and the hammers can drop and strike the firing pins and leave a nice imprint in the block.

Putting the gun back together and trying it with live ammo,,now you have the cocking rod being pushed forward as before and kicking that cocking arm out.
But if there is anything in the forend shoe or the ejector mechanism that is offering resistance to that motion,,that will buffer the hammer fall and make for light strikes on the primers.

The problem may be in the forearm/ejector mechanism. It not allowing the cocking rods and arms to easily push forward under the fall of the hammer(s). With the forend off, any resistance from that is gone and a nice hard strike is seen on the wooden block.
Fore-end on and gun assembled, light strikes on the primers.

Try firing w/live ammo with the forend removed. See if it fires or if you still get light strikes on the primers.
Place the forend back on before openiing the gun so the hammers recock and the firing pins don't drag on the primers when opening it.

I'd take the cocking arms out of the front of the frame (cross pin) and mark them R & L for reinstall.

Then Pull each of the cocking rods straight out.
IIRC they are not held in with the double hex nut at the front like the NID.
They should come out easily. If not bounce the front of the frame on a lead block sharply to encourage them to exit. Sometimes it takes a bit of that and picking and grabbing to pull them out.

They could be slightly bent, the ends may be peened,, or both. Not uncommon.
Check those cocking arms for peened over edges where they engage the rods. That may be jamming them in their slots in the frame. Everything needs to move freely.
There's no precision fitting in these, just parts that slide and pivot.

The hole the rods occupy each may be packed with crud not allowing free movement, that needs to be clean as well.

About all I can think of for now.

No need to take the hammers and mainsprings out ,,yet,, as the strikes seem to be OK on the wooden block.
They are a tough one to reinstall w/o a jig and a drill press (again assuming it's the same as a Nitro Special.

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#580619 - 09/26/20 12:57 PM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
82nd Trooper Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 03/19/19
Posts: 74
Kutter-Thanks for your input and I will check that out. Those main springs are a handful for me for the trigger install.

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#581530 - 10/05/20 12:18 PM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
82nd Trooper Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 03/19/19
Posts: 74
Well I inspected everything for cleanliness and serviceability and everything according to Kutter's post checked out okay. If the forend or hammers are next to troubleshoot let me know what to look for and I'll proceed accordingly.

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#581563 - 10/05/20 05:18 PM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
ed good Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 01/25/02
Posts: 7587
Loc: nh mostly
or seek professional help...

gunter pfrommer knows ithacas...
_________________________
birds are gone...dogs are gone...awl we got left are the gons...

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#581594 - 10/06/20 09:22 AM Re: Wards Westernfield Long Range Double Not Firing [Re: 82nd Trooper]
82nd Trooper Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 03/19/19
Posts: 74
Ed-thanks for referring Gunter.

I enjoy buying "gunsmith special" shotguns and restoring all aspects of them to the best of my abilities. Whether it's mechanical, metal finishes, or wood repairs/finishes. I'm a gunsmith enthusiast and I enjoy the guidance provided by professionals that post on this forum.

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