doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dis-assembling antique collectible cartridge

Obviously, I have.

I'm not about to use one with 110 grains of explosive, nor would I recommend others do so against the advice of the makers of the tools.

Think again.

Then think about how paper patch cartridges are loaded.

Then go out in the garage 2 grains of powder on top of your vice's anvil and gently rest your hammer on it. Then jerk the hammer upwards and away really quickly and see what happens.

Next, beat that 2 grains of powder for all you're worth with that hammer on the anvil.

Finally, Go and tap the bullet out of the case using the inertial bullet puller.

It might trouble you to know that most if not all manufacturers of duck decoys recommend that you do not use their decoys for hunting due to danger.

Think about it.

I don't think drilling will distort the bullet.

Assuming you have the 450/400 3 1/4" Magnum BPE, according to the Eley/Kynoch cartridge book of 1935, the bullet will weigh 230 grains (copper -tubed) or 255 grains (solid).

I've thought about it sufficiently.

What else is there in that old antique cartridge that might be percussion sensitive and perhaps unstable due to age?

I'm not about to subject what is possibly a fulminate to a bunch of G force and expect the procedure to be safe.

Wow, you guys are FANTASTIC, thank you!
The inertia hammer bullet puller I have is too small to handle this big round. Danged shame, too. I feel comfortable pulling bullets from black powder cases, gently.
Steve, you have already advised me on loading this cartridge outside of the venue here. Recall I used "copper patched" bullets from Hawk, and they worked well at 60 yards, and I credited you, and you wrote back by email "color me surprised," which still makes me chuckle. Well today they, those same BP rounds, sucked donkey dog at 90 yards. If I have to drill the bullet, I will, although I am not choosing this as the first approach, because like others here, I am afraid the bullet will become deformed and the delicate information I am seeking will be lost.
Someone said above this round was common. Well, I haven't seen that. In fact, what I have seen is that it (ammo, guns, loading info) was uncommon. The gun is a Lancaster oval bore made in 1894 for the Raja of Poonch, who, according to the ledgers, ordered a second one in 1895. Having done as much historical research on the Rajas of Poonch (western Kashmir, quite a place for hunting and fishing) as anyone would care to know, I turned my attention to making the gun shoot right. Based on initial results, I thought I had it dialed in. Nope. After today it is back to the drawing board, and the two boxes of antique rounds from Drake should help me figure it out.
Just gotta get the bullets out in one piece and not deformed.
And I agree that this is cool and fascinating. The wads are of especial interest to me. I experiment with all kinds of wad materials in the BPE rifles in my care, using arch punches that I either make or order and then customize, and so far I haven't found anything better than the vegetable wad material by Walters Wads. So yeah, BrentD, you can bet I will post everything I get. One approach is to use a Dremel cutting wheel to slightly weaken the brass, so that it can be pulled back in strips or petals.

Hi Ken. So far, all of my research has resulted in me thinking the opposite; that the 450/400 3-1/4" was uncommon.
I am trying to determine the original BPE bullet diameter, paper patch thickness, and wad(s) size, thickness, and material.
I am seeking this information because the information I have been able to find online and in books has been scattershot. Of particular interest is the bullet diameter, because various sources list it at .405", .408", .410", .411", and .412". Although the .412" was really a Nitro Express size. If I am going to get this 1894 double rifle to shoot correctly, then I have to determine the bullet diameter. The powder charge is engraved on the gun, the bullet weight (and the exploding shell weight!) are listed in the rifle's ledger entry. But all we have to go on are various drawings and opinions about the bullet diameter. Gotta find out for myself.

One approach is to use a Dremel cutting wheel to slightly weaken the brass, so that it can be pulled back in strips or petals.

Might want to think twice about taking a dremel cutting wheel to a loaded cartridge, especially one loaded with black powder. Brass heats quite quickly and black powder doesn't take much heat to ignite and that could really ruin someone's day! A bullet puller like RCBS makes, as suggested earlier, is the safest way to break down a loaded round. But to each their own...WBLDon

Don, you know I am anxious about that! I have ordered a .41-caliber bullet pulling collet for the press. Hopefully it resolves the challenge.

You might consider just cutting the case with a tubing cutter below the neck.

Then you can get the powder out and proceed with your bulletectomy via the Dremel wheel.

If you desire to measure this to the thou, are you concerned about pulling the bullet through the neck distorting it?

You might consider posting over on Nitro Express.com as well. A wealth of info and very experienced double rifle shooters frequent that site. Graham Wright's books may shed some light on the subject.