doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on Remington

Nah, 2 3/4", Francis. It's backbored so much that it's got way over .050" choke. I can't remember the exact amount right now. Pretty sure is was a card gun, made to compete on turkey targets.

I plan to try it on some crows. Ought to be pretty impressive with that much choke.

Stan: you used to be able to go to a Remington webpage and just plug in the serial number to find the date of manufacture. Not sure if that's still available or not.

You can also find this information and more at the Remington Society of America website.

Wow-- My 12 gauge 3"Mag M12 Heavy Duck has a super-snug factory full choke- made in 1949- 30" Full solid rib. I removed the lead from the butt cavity, to maintain the muzzle forward feel that most all unaltered M12's seem to have. For pass shooting on waterfowl, tukeys and crows, gangbusters, with steel or lead loads. I often carry a box of WRA 1 ounce steel no 7 shot in my waterfowling carry seat- if the day turns "blue-birdy" and the farms I frequent have loads of pigeons and crows, I switch from the heavy No. 2 steel loads to the light loads, and devastate overhead soaring crows and poopsters- A frined has a similar M12 3" full, but his has the rare 32" barrel- But the older Remington M31's and then the M870's are great pumps as well, just that the slide release and the safety button on the trigger guard assembly is "bass-ackwards" from the M12's I tend to favor.

Hard to argue that both Rudy and his father, Fred Etchen, were shotgunning legends, on clays, box pigeons, and game birds-- Rudy had many fine shotguns (Purdey-not too shabby) but his "go-to" shotgun was a 12 gauge Rem 870. That speaks volumes to me.

Glad to see that you are getting back "into the game" Sounds from all I read here that it was a real freak accident, and thanks to the help from some good friends, and the doctors in the Girard area, you survived. In this time of national crisis with Covid, that is, indeed great good news. Stay well, amigo-best to Jean and your sons and grandsons. (PS- and any daughters and granddaughters as well) RWTF

We started a " pump gun Friday " at the club for SCs. Anyone without a pump bought a 870, some Wing Masters and some the Express. Haven't heard one complaint. I bought a 410 Express for the 410 only games someone thought up. No problems. I read where gun production is expected to continue at Ilion.

I just re-acquired a number of pump guns that had been on "long-term loan" up at my late father-in-law's place in Nowhere, Minnesota. As I cleaned and packed them up for the long ride back to Colorado, I compared them side by side and the comparison wasn't pretty. The older they where, the better they clearly were. The most recent was a left-handed 870 Express that I purchased just a few years ago (5-6) and it is downright butt-ugly (the Birchwood(?) stock looks almost like it's plastic). But...it seems to work just fine. I've owned a number of Remington pumps, Model 10s, Model 17s, Model 31s, 870 and 870 Express guns and....as you might expect, quality seems to peak just before the Second World War. Pre-war Model 31s are simply amazing guns (and this from a Model 12 fan). Build quality and fit & finish is exceptional. The 870 is derived from the Model 31 in that it's ergonomics and controls are identical, but while the 31 was machined-steel, the 870 was stamped-steel to allow it to better compete with Winchester's venerable Model 12 (30% cheaper!). Remington won that battle in something like 1962 when Winchester threw in the towel and ceased M12 production. Millions of 870s have been made since but...the older ones are clearly much nicer. The Wingmaster versions actually look pretty good to me now (even though an M31 would eat their lunch in every way).

Maybe in build quality, but an 870 WingMaster beats it in flexibility, choke tubes, chamber length, parts availability, aftermarket support, barrel interchangeability, steel/tungsten shot capability...

A 31 is a "better" gun, as is a Model 12, but an older WingMaster is better than it needs to be, moderately priced, and widely available. As I have said before, if I could keep only one gun to do everything, I'd have to get rid of everything except my old WingMaster Magnum 3", with cut checkering and oil finished wood.

My 1100's all have the diamond inlay in the grip cap. Remington used some nice wood on those back in the day. The design was long ago eclipsed by modern automatics, but the guns do handle and point well. They all have aftermarket trigger groups or trigger parts and good crisp triggers. When they break, and they all have at some point, parts are available and cheap. Some day I just shoot an 1100 to remind me where I came from. A great many people got into the game with that model. It's as much a part of our history as any doublegun.

I did buy a pre-Cerberus Wingmaster because I could see that the corporate raiders were going to take every nickel out of the product and I wanted a real 870 while they were available. It's quite a nice gun with very straight grain and strong walnut. The finish is very good I think.

The older Remingtons had a nice machine blue on them and that finsh has held up pretty well on most of them. Of course, you would never mistake a Model 11 for an FN made gun. I do have a 31, but I'm less impressed than some folks with the design. The trigger with the way it lifts is just weird. The 870 was a piece of genius and sales numbers have rather proven that.

I do hope the STS shell remians unchanged, although there is small chance.

Good luck to the new investors. They will need it.

Thanks for the suggestions on looking up the Wingmaster serial number. When I feel up to it I'll retrieve the # and try to look it up. I need to measure that choke again, too. The more I think about it the more I believe it was even tighter than I said.

SRH

Lloyd- as a brother pumpgunner- I saw a 16 M31 with an extra barrel last week at a newly opened gun shoppe-near the farm area where I deer hunt in Nov. Were all the M31's a std. weight gun, or, like WRA with the featherweight version of the M12, dud they ever experiment with an alloyed receiver? Just wondering. RWTF