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Joined: Jul 2012
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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: Hal
Were any single-trigger hammer doubles produced?


Slightly off topic, but I was just thinking about the single trigger question. One of the very earliest pinfire guns made by Casimir Lefaucheux actually has a single trigger that fires whichever hammer is cocked.

But its a pistol! However I dont see any reason why someone couldnt have used this idea on a shotgun.

This is the very first pinfire pistol made for a pinfire pistol cartridge. (And the first pinfire pistol cartridges were made for this pistol.) There was an earlier pinfire pistol but it was basically a small shotgun and took cut down shotshells.









Last edited by AaronN; 10/19/20 11:40 PM.

Clock Guns, Pauly Guns, Pinfire Guns and Pinfire Cartridges
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"But feel free to decide which set of hammers looks best"

1, 46, and the fox/squirrelesque/mammalian hammers next.
These pinfires you have so excellently and interestingly presented are to me, the most elegant shotguns certainly that I've ever seen, and I only vaguely new of their existence. Thank you, and I look forward to more, and the book (with color photos I hope).
I have a newfound respect for the cartridges and their place in history as well.

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AaronN,
Are the barrels rifled?

Have you studied the twist rate for pinfire rifles?

The Powell day books mention "8 ft 8 inches."

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Thanks for the interest in my query. Would like to see an image or drawing of a single-trigger hammer shotgun or rifle said to be so rare. Would almost have to be selective if chokes were used or if on a buschflinte.

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Originally Posted By: Steve Nash
When executed well such scenes are very attractive and, when done crudely Um, to paraphrase comments from elsewhere on the board, who wants to look at flying turnips?



I happen to love the little stubby winged flying turnips found on Parkers and such. Personally, I find them to be a highly stylized, beautiful adaptation, like a mannerist painting of a woman with an absurdly long neck. In my opinion, representation should be the starting point of imagination, not the end.

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Originally Posted By: Steve Helsley
AaronN,
Are the barrels rifled?

Have you studied the twist rate for pinfire rifles?

The Powell day books mention "8 ft 8 inches."


They are Smooth.


Clock Guns, Pauly Guns, Pinfire Guns and Pinfire Cartridges
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My information is that Purdey developed a functional mechanical single-trigger in 1890; Holland & Holland in 1891; Boss & Co. in 1894, with a perfected design by John Robertson and William Adams -- the pinfire game gun was history by then. Most guns at this point would be hammerless, but a few clients might have preferred external hammers, but were willing to try a single trigger? If anyone can refer to a published image, that would be useful.

The recoil-activated single-trigger came much later, with Val Browning's patent in 1940.

If someone has volume 3 of Crudgington & Baker's The British Shotgun, there might be more detailed information on who came up with the first single-trigger mechanism on a double shotgun.

That pistol is quite interesting, AaronN!

As to gun decoration, Mark, to each their own, I guess. I still marvel at how a scrappy Mediterranean weed ended up being the inspiration for most gun engraving.

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The only sporting double hammer shotgun I have examined is in the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds.

Greener; The Gun & its Development illustrates a Greener double hammer gun with single trigger and refers to a double Flintlock pistol with one. He mentions the first English patent being 1864. Not much New under the Sun in Gunmaking terms. Lagopus..

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On the Reilly line, I have posted a riposte to Diggory Hadoke's article on Reilly SN 10054, dated per the Reilly SN chart to Fall 1856.
https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-earliest-reilly-breech-loader-

Per the commentary, Mark Crudgington has seen two Lang center-break pin-fires whose receipts allegedly date them to 1854. We've yet to see photographic proof. For now, 10054 Is the oldest existing UK made pin fire. Welcome refutations and additions.

Last edited by Argo44; 10/24/20 12:49 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Really nice Reilly SxS 20 bore for sale at Amoskeag. 13033, formerly owned by Terry Buffum, would date to last quarter of 1863 per my chart.
https://live.amoskeagauction.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/54/lot/29699



serial #13,033, 20 ga., 29'' barrels with bright very fine bores showing remnants of some light scattered oxidation and light remnants of pitting, the left tube showing an old professionally raised ding about 8'' from the muzzle. The barrels show lovely star damascus pattern their full-length with a bit of fading nearer the muzzles, a bit of very light oxidation and very light pinprick pitting at right of muzzles. The rib is neatly marked ''EM Reilly & Co. New Oxford St., London'' and shows a bit of nice scroll at its rear with small engraved ''explosions'' around the ignition pin holes at the breech. The frame and back action lockplates are primarily a pewter gunmetal gray patina showing some trace case colors in the protected areas, more prominent on the left plate. They feature tight English scroll on the radii of the frame with gamebirds on the lockplates, each also maker marked in-turn and with nice scroll at their rears and the sides of the hammer; the hammer noses are neatly engraved in a dolphin head motif. The long tang triggerguard shows some nice engraving with solid blue on the bow beneath the opening lever, the long upper tang as well with the same nice quality scroll and a small gamebird. The length of pull to the smooth steel shotgun buttplate is 14 1/4'' with a bit of light scroll at the top of the heel. The English walnut buttstock rates very good to perhaps near fine with some nice grain figure and coarse checkering and the expected light dings and handling marks that come from the years. The splinter forend is near fully checkered and has a small horn tip insert and a tiny flake at left side rear near the iron. The locks are crisp and mechanically functional and in time for the most part, the right hammer sits just a tiny bit rear of the left, the right side small raised edge flare to the rear of the standing breeches shows a small chip. The screws show nice slots with the bottom lever screw slot showing just a tiny bit of wear and could easily be dressed. The arm is tight on face and comes in a nice walnut case with brass corners and Reilly makers label on the interior. The green baize is an older replacement and is rather nice, the case likely being adapted to this arm. There is a nice nickel oil bottle, a maple wad ram, some rod end accessories and three paper 20 bore pinfire shells which fit the chambers very well. A very handsome EM Reilly shotgun that likely could still go afield once a few more shells are secured. (39894-3) {ANTIQUE} (1500/2000)

Last edited by Argo44; 10/31/20 08:53 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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