March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
9 members (lagopus, Marc Ret, Argo44, 3 invisible), 290 guests, and 5 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,001
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#582570 10/23/20 09:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
vern21 Offline OP
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
Question: What is the best way to pack powder in BPE rifle ammo cases? Drop tube, compression die, or vibrating the case once filled with powder?

Jim

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
I use all three actually...

My droptube is equipped with vibration and compression is another factor in any bp loading.

What powder and bullets are you intending to use?


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
vern21 Offline OP
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
OE 1.5 with 300-350 gr grease groove lead in a .450 BPE.

Jim

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Jim, not my favorite powder, but it will work. Plan on significant compression after drop tubing, up to as much as 3/8" maybe more in that case.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
vern21 Offline OP
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
Vibrating the case after using a drop tube gives me enough room for a card wad and bullet. I wondered if one method was better than another.

Jim

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
When I get back to a real keyboard I can explain more. But you described a zero compression load which is a great starting point. From there go up 2 or 3 grains at a time maintaining overall length with increasing compression.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531
Likes: 18
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531
Likes: 18
vern21,
Second BrentD.

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Jim,
I'm back home now and have an antelope resting in the freezer. With a keyboard and more time, I can ask a few questions. But first, the difference between vibrating and drop tubing is unclear and debatable - recently a topic of discussion on the Shiloh forum. I use both at the same time because it makes the process move smoothly. One or the other is adequate. Compression is another thing and generally at least a little is required and it is best done with a dedicated compression die, NOT a lead bullet.

What are your goals for your rifle? Hunting, target shooting and plinking are all different and may require different things to optimize your rifle.

Are you shooting a double or a singleshot? I'm imagining a .450 BPE in a 3.25" case.

If you are hunting or expressly wanting to shoot a fouled bore, you may consider blow tubing between shots or a grease cookie in addition to wads. There are lots of good lubes out there for the bullet and cookie but there are lots of wrong ones for blackpowder too. If you are more interested in target shooting, then wiping between shots may be preferred. And then there are paper-patched bullets which are my passion, but again, it depends on what you want to do.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
vern21 Offline OP
Sidelock
OP Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
Brent,

Congrats on the freezer fill. Double rifle, .450 3 1/4 BPE to hunt and plink. My eyes wont allow much past 100 yards any more with open sights. I have 300 and 350 gr bullets greased with SPG. I would like to try paper patching, but have had no luck locating bullets around the above weights.

Just trying to understand. If one uses a compression die, how does that differ from vibrating, if the finished level in the case is the same after each process?


Jim

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,668
Likes: 372
Yes, bullets that sort for an express rifle are hard to find in paper patch form. My smallest/shortest at about 1" long and 410 grs. My rifles have faster twist. Most paper patched bullets are over 500 gr. Grease grooves will probably be better for your uses.

So, drop tubing or vibrating will only fill the case with so much powder. The physical limit this way is far less than any safety threshold so it is normal to start with a load that will vibrate or drop tube to a level that will just fit under your bullet with a wad and no compression. This is effectively a minimum load for that bullet and wad combination.

To a different load means adding more powder - and that necessitates doing something to create the space for it, and compression is what gets you there.

So let's back up.

Start with bullet seating depth. The bullet normally would be engraved through the first band in a target load. But they will not seat easily in a fouled barrel so figure that you may want to back off from that just slightly. Put the first band on the rifling but not into it more than a minimal amount. That overall length (OAL) with that bullet and your wad will determine how high your powder column must be to fill the case, and thus your minimum load with drop tubing or vibrating.

Next add 2 grs of powder to that total and drop tube that into the case. Your bullet will sit too high to meet your OAL, so compress it with a compression die (buffaloarms.com).

Continue adding powder in 2 gr increments until you find a load that shoots well and you are done.

That's a bit over simplified, but that's the process in a nutshell. You can compress black powder up to 3/8" easily. At some point, you will have so much compression that the brass will bulged and the case will not chamber. With luck, you will have an accurate load before then, but if not, there are ways to deal with that as well.

Good luck and let us know how you do. I believe there are others here that shoot bp in similar cartridges. They may have some additional suggestions.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.062s Queries: 36 (0.038s) Memory: 0.8482 MB (Peak: 1.8987 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 16:45:05 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS