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#583393 11/05/20 08:07 AM
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From a gunmaker's point of view, why is it an attribute of a best gun that there is no through lump in the floorplate, as opposed to lower quality guns which may show the lower part of the barrel lug through an opening in the floorplate?

Is it because of aesthetics mostly, or has it something to do with fitting? Is it easier to fit up a double with an underlug that is visible through the floorplate?

It certainly looks cleaner when it is hidden above the floorplate, IMO, unless there is some very well executed engraving on and around the lug and opening.

It is interesting that some American makers did not make guns with through lumps and some did. Same for Britain. From what I have seen most Continental makers did, except for their best.

All pertinent opinions welcome but, would any gunmakers/doublegunsmiths please address this?

SRH



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Well, I'm not a gunmaker, nor am I a gunsmith. But, I did have a discussion about through lumps with a Purdey representative at the 2000 Vintage Cup at Orvis Sandanona. We were discussing hammerguns with and without through lumps. The Purdey rep told me that Purdey never did, nor ever would produce a hammergun with through lumps. I asked why, he told me it was a matter of strength, through lumps make for a weaker action.


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We must have spoken to the same guy. The man at Purdey's that I spoke to about it said that when the lump swings down into the action floor It was a sign of best craftsmanship that you could fit the lug so tightly there was almost an airtight surrounding of the barrel lump On closing.
If you think about the technology that was being used to produce the early best guns making that square box in the bottom of the action was quite a feat, and a real sign of craftsmanship.
But it's also one more of those best gun treats that you can't actually see either.

Definitely not a case of, "Hey dumbass, When you carve out that blind hole, don't cut all the way through." LOL!


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Ithaca added one when they brought out their Magnum-Frame NID in 1932.

Regular Frame --



Magnum Frame --


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Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
We must have spoken to the same guy. The man at Purdey's that I spoke to about it said that when the lump swings down into the action floor It was a sign of best craftsmanship that you could fit the lug so tightly there was almost an airtight surrounding of the barrel lump On closing.
If you think about the technology that was being used to produce the early best guns making that square box in the bottom of the action was quite a feat, and a real sign of craftsmanship.
!


Interesting you should say that. This past weekend a friend's Boucher dumped some powder from a shotshell somehow into the lug mortices when a roll-crimped case came apart. Just a few flakes of powder were enough to prevent the gun from closing and it wasn't a sorta maybe thing. If flat would not go at all and the locking bolt wouldn't even think of swinging shut.

Beware of getting a little grass seed or cattail duff in there.


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Originally Posted By: Researcher
Ithaca added one when they brought out their Magnum-Frame NID in 1932.


That would seem to refute the business about strength.

It does add additional bearing surface to the frame/barrel set interface.

Engineers put lightening holes in just about everything.

Why would a shotgun frame be any different than, say, a bridge when designing for bending load? They don't always make those solid you know...


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Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
Originally Posted By: Researcher
Ithaca added one when they brought out their Magnum-Frame NID in 1932.


That would seem to refute the business about strength.


Wonder why Purdey didn't tell Ithaca about that before they made such a huuuuuge mistake? Must be a big pile of cracked Ithaca Magnum actions somewhere, eh..........

Not!!

SRH


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ClapperZapper,
The holes do go all the way through, they are just covered by the bottom plate. Having the lugs go through allows a slightly thinner action, while being strong enough to meet the requirements.
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IMHO (engineering), this is far more about aesthetic and fashion than about action strength. I am unaware of any stress issues around the barrel to frame joints. If the barrel lugs are circle jointed to the frame, the bulk of the load in firing is straight tinsel on the frame and compression on the lug; both in relatively thick section areas. I don't see any particular strength advantage for either design or the need for any. Note that this is not an area in which even low quality guns fail.

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researcher: extraordinary photos above...

are they digital or 35mm film?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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