doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Browning Superposeds vs other superposeds

I love your O/U, Bob! And love 28 ga too!

I have a 28 ga B525 and I�m very happy with "her" (all my guns have their own personality). A very strong shotgun with an incredible and consistent closure (I don�t know how to tell when you close a shotgun and hear the sound).

Regards!

I�m curious if Don Amos has any swing dynamic numbers that he could reply to this thread, that might explain why some people shoot them well.

The browning designed action has a lot of mass right in the middle it�s deeper and heavier than others.

Maybe it�s general design hits the middle of the road for average sized people.

That could offer an explanation of some of their popularity.

The citori 12 bore I owned was noticeably heavier in the barrels than the supposedly identical Browning 425 I had. I am assuming that the Browning 425 was designated for the European market and balanced similar to a Browning B25. My order of preference would be the European marketed 425 then the 687 game model and lastly the citori . Of the three ,from memory, the citori had the most drop and the beretta the least. The European 425 in fixed choke model was very similar to the Miroku MK60 in weight and balance and much like the more expensive B25 superposed models. If you were looking for B25 handling for Beretta money I would recommend the Miroku MK60.

I�m in luck then.
I shoot a pair of Miroku High Pheasant 20�s when double gunning. LOL!

You are a lucky man. I owned a lower grade 20 bore Miroku and stupidly sold it.
I have a grade 5 12 bore that I was considering trading for a 20 but the lead shot ban is making me hold fire. I would be using it for walked up shooting rather than driven. If I was buying a gun specifically for high driven birds I would be favouring a heavier 12 bore but not with fixed choke 3/4 and full as it�s a bit too tight for the average birds I usually shoot so I would probably opt for the greater flexibility of a multichoke.The MK60 teague choked would be a good choice to retain the better balance of the fixed choke models. MK60s are well thought of shotguns and great value for money especially in the higher grades I�ve heard of many UK shooters who have turned their backs on more expensive sporters and returned to the Miroku line of guns especially the MK38.
Do you double gun here in the UK ? It�s not an experience I hanker after. My sporting exploits are satisfied with the rate of fire from a single gun and ejectors ,even using non ejectors , it gives me more time to look around and savour the whole experience that is sporting shooting. I wouldn�t want to miss a woodcock or snipe sliding past or a skein of geese passing in the distance in my effort to sustain a barrage on incoming pheasants or partridges which I expect would become quite repetitive. But each to his own.

I'm probably going to regret this.... chiming in on a thread around here is usually a way to get insulted by people who are more noted for their rudeness than their shooting experience/knowledge....But Mr. Stan H. is a very personable and keen shot who has asked a question that I might be able to shed some light on....Some of it ,like others here posted, is personal preference.... but a LOT of it is actual field and competition experience gathered over a period of 53 years, 1967 being my first experience with a Browning O/U.

At the time I got my first one of my own (1968) it was the only high grade O/U READILY available that could stand up to competition level use. When I began registering ATA trap targets in '67 it was the prevailing O/U on most any fields making up 75% of the O/U guns in use.
It was even a higher percentage of dedicated trap double guns.

When I shot my first Columbaire pigeons(a BIG game in Texas in those days)it made up probably 90% of the guns in use.
The leading contenders of the time almost to a man used a Superposed of some type.

When I shot my first Box Birds in the U.S.(1976)they were far and away the most common gun on the grounds of the major shoots of the period. Many being the trap double guns of competitors who shot both games. Back then most every leading Box Bird shooter gravitated to the game from ATA trap. A few exceptions, but Most ATA All Americans of the period crossed over to the ring and performed with similar success.

I shot my 30" Lightning Trap model for my first top score in late 1976 and my first 25 straight 3 months later in February of '77 at the U.S. Flyer Championship, held then at the Dallas Gun Club at its old Royal Ln. location. I used the same gun to win the U.S. Flyer title on those grounds in 1979.

My first trip to Europe to shoot pigeons was to Milan in '79 and the Browning/FN gun in some form made up @25-30% of the guns on the grounds. It was still the most used by Americans, French, and Belgian shooters. Italian guns naturally made up the bulk of the guns used in Italy at the time.

Stan, I don't keep up with the Sporting clay scene , but I do know that British top gun, John Bidwell of "Move, Mount and Shoot" fame won English, World and FITASC titles with an FN manufactured Browning sporting gun. He later took a better paying contract with another company(Blaser maybe).

Although the Perazzi O/Us make up the majority of the guns at American and European pigeon shoots today, the FNs still appear regularly, including the 28" wide rib model used by a noted Portuguese shooter who won 2 World championships and later a Veteran World Championship all with the same gun.

Although I have not competed with one for years now, I still use the guns in various forms almost daily during various bird seasons in Texas. The 20 gauge gun is probably the most dynamic and keenly proportioned of the guns....they just seem to "click".

As to 30" 20 bore FN's, they are custom shop items , and have been for years now. I have a 30" 20 ga. D5G gun. After seeing this thread , I got it out and used it yesterday afternoon. As fine a gun as one could want.... and as you know I have others with more prestigious (costly) names on them.
Just one man's observations.

Here's one you might like Stan.
A Belgian Browning 525 20 gauge, 32" barrels, Teague choked. 6lb 12 oz

Thanks for the insight Mel5141. Very interesting read.

I have been a superposed fan for years and have never been able to explain just what it is about them that makes me shoot them better than other guns I own. The closest I can come is that it�s just the feel of the gun.

The one I have never owned is a Broadway trap. Some day I intend to pick one of these up.

Thanks Paul, for your observations and experience with them. It helps me put them in perspective a lot better.

One thing I wonder...... have you ever noticed FTF on the bottom barrel? I have heard that, because the bottom firing pin strikes at a 45� angle, it fails to fire sometimes on shells with deep primer seating. Browning supposedly corrected this later by lengthening it .015". I wonder because FTF is an anathema to a flyer shooter.

Stan, glad to hear your recovery is going well.

Although you asked a question about present day, there's more nostalgia involved with the Browning than any other OU in this country. It was the gun that got Americans interested in OU's. And a lot of guys are shooting them today because they've been in the family since granddad bought it . . . maybe right before or (more likely) right after WWII. The reason so many people shoot OU's today is because the Superposed got it all started in this country. If you didn't own one and you were into target shooting, it's likely you aspired to own one.

Looking at prices, think of it this way--and I'll stick with the basic Lightning: The guns have become classics, and especially in 12ga, you can buy a nice used one for a very reasonable price for a classic double. 20's are a good bit more expensive (far fewer of them than 12's). But if you're into nostalgia and your taste runs to OU's, they're cheaper than a Fox AE or a Parker VHE--and they'll shoot modern ammo, which some of the Parkers and Foxes won't.

I'm pretty sure it was McIntosh who described the Superposed as being more complex than it needed to be . . . but he compared it to the Parker, which is similarly complex. But they both work.

I'm not an OU guy, but I've owned a couple 20ga Supers, and they shoot well for me. And when I think about a lightweight field gun for grouse, woodcock, and quail, I have to think of a good reason not to buy a 20ga Superlight. Just something about them.