doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Browning Superposeds vs other superposeds

I have to admit I'm another Superposed fan, despite the lack of exposed hammers...

Early Superposed guns marked only Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre made their way to Canada, before being available in the USA with Browning markings. Here is a 1930 field-grade Superposed marked in this way, serial number less than 500. I also have a 1951 20-gauge with similar markings (though with the single trigger).

I'm a whispy English sidelock kind of a guy, but I love Browning Superposeds. Somehow, I always shoot them well, and I think a lot of guys say the same thing. The balance is just so perfectly between the hands.

My father was a Superposed guy and a target shooter, so I have a lot of experience with them, and the reliability has always been superb (for us).

My particular Superposed favorites are any Dianas, Lightnings with 28" barrels (especially 20's), and the Superlight.

The gun's design has been criticized by various writers over the years for one perceived fault or another.....but they have some qualities that make them excellent field guns.....John Browning knew something about guns and human anatomy as well.... one design feature I am very fond of is the fact that the action, when broken open , either after the ejectors have been tripped or just simply opened, STAYS OPEN, unlike the Beretta and Perazzi (and Boss or the Woodard/Purdey) it is not necessary to pull down on the rear of the gun to load the bottom barrel. Particularly important to me when trying to mark downed birds for a young dog or an indifferent retriever. I can reload without any distraction from the gun itself. The guns open and Close easily when broken in.
The late gun editor Capt. Paul Curtis, singing the praises of the newly introduced Superposed in the early 30's, said he considered it the equal of the British offerings of the time an a fraction of the cost. He described the working of the gun as being "like velvet on velvet, so fine is the fit and finish"

Thanks again, Paul. Sounds like the bottom firing pin issue is a NON-issue. My questions have been answered satisfactorily.

Thanks to all who tried to answer helpfully.

Best, SRH

Stan, you jogged my memory.
Some years ago, maybe 25, a Browning collector at my club showed me a high grade, high mileage Superposed with a wopped out bottom barrel firing pin hole, that bound enough to break firing pins.
I remember him talking about having it bushed.

So, I guess it would always be good to look at the hole prior to purchase.

Thanks for the prompt, CZ. I have been busy and short on time, so reading was all I'd had time for until now. Stan, I imagine the following will stir memories of a discussion of handling you and I had.

Review of my views on gun handling follows. Handling is a product of four factors: weight - measured in pounds, balance (teeter-totter) - measured in inches from the (front) trigger, unmounted swing effort - expressed as moment of inertia about/around the balance point (center of gravity)times 10, and mounted swing effort - expressed as moment of inertia times 10 about the butt of the gun. There is no one objective number that sums the foregoing four. There is also a factor named half weight radius that shows how much the weight is spread out or compacted.

A review of my data showed I'm woefully short on Superposed guns. However, I'll share some of what I have right now.

Superposed 20 gauge, 28" bbls, 14 3/4" LOP, 6# 10 oz weight, 4 3/4 inch balance, 1.80 unmounted, 7.24 mounted, 11.22" HWR.

Bertuzzi Gull Wing 12 gauge, 28" bbls, 14 3/4" LOP, 6# 10 oz, 4 3/4" balance, 1.54 unmounted, 6.98 mounted, 10.38 HWR.

As you can see, the weight, bbl length, LOP, and balance are identical. The Bertuzzi, with 0.26 lower MOI unmounted, would be a might easier/quicker to change direction of pointing. The Browning's 0.84 higher HWR shows a lower compactness which explains the Bertuzzi's lower unmounted swing effort in spite of the identical weight, balance, bbl length and LOP. The biggest difference between the two is that the Bertuzzi had a $250,000 hang tag attached. Far be it from me to criticize the Bertuzzi - it was one magnificent gun. And, the Browning was a Superposed - and that requires no explanation on this board.

The two would have handled very similarly. However, it is unlikely that gripping areas were the same shape, size, and texture so the guns would have had differing feel. The stock dimensions beyond LOP probably were different so the gun fit would have been different.

I have a 0.410 Superposed in the back of my safe that I haven't measured. Will post it in a couple of days.

Thanks, Don. Yes, I do remember well our conversation, and how the light came on for me when you explained it all, as you spun that little doublegun. That helps a lot.

What would really help me in understanding the Superposed handling is if you had the numbers on a 20 ga. Silver Pigeon II Sporting. Then I could really have something tangible to compare it to. From what I've been able to gather there is more to the allure of a Super than just the handling. It's the overall feel of using the gun..............it's smoothness of operation and appearance. And, I did well note what Paul pointed out about not having to press down against the springs to get the shell in the bottom barrel when reloading. That is a peeve of mine on many O/Us.

There are certain sounds that are just "right." A skilled operator running a Model 12 and the snick of the ejectors of a Superposed after crushing a double.

I think the 525s were all manufactured by Miroku in Japan. The B125s were parts sourced from Miroku and assembled in Belgium though but I do not know if their actions were the same as the B25s or the simplified Miroku action. From memory I think the B125s had the non detachable fore end as a feature

Assembled and proofed in Belgium for the European market, no kidding.
Lighter than a similar 28 gauge 425 with 30� barrels. B125 you say?
I thought since the serial# began 525... nicest Japanese Superposed / Belgian Citori I�ve ever had.