doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com WANT TO BUY AN AMERICAN DOUBLE

New member here�� and a little about me:
I�m 50 years old
I�m and Engineer
My hobbies are hunting, fishing, spearfishing, shooting (USPSA and 3Gun)
I have been reloading since I was about 12 years old. My Dad always reloaded for shotgun since before I was born. I got us started in metallic rifle and pistol around 1991. I have dies and components for probably 50 or more calibers including 12, 20 and 410 shotshell.
Just giving a little bio so you know who you are speaking to and can adjust your responses accordingly.

One subject that I don�t know much about is vintage double guns. So I�m looking for some direction from you guys.

Reason for this post is I want to purchases a vintage American double barrel. Here is a list of what I�m looking for and what the gun will be used for.

1) Good shooter�this gun will be used for squirrel and rabbit hunting here in south Louisiana. Maybe some duck hunting with 2.5� light bismuth loads or similar�. Quail and any other wing shooting that I would do. I go to Kansas on occasion bow hunting and this gun would make that trip to kill a few pheasant.

2) I have decided on a 12 gauge for a few reasons, I only have two other 12 gauges, I have an excessive amount of reloading components for 12 gauge and have worked up some killer 1 oz loads of #5 to shoot thru my suppressed 870 that have a muzzle velocity of about 900 fps and crush squirrels out to 40 yards or a bit more�..so I have faith that I can make light loads for the old 12 gauge that will do whatever I want. And I see they are typically much cheaper than the smaller guns.

3) I do want an American double. My granddad had an L C Smith that was shot to death. My uncle has it now but unfortunately won�t give it up. I have looked at the Fox, L.C. Smith, Ithaca, Parker, Lefever, Iver Johnson, Remington 1900,�. and of all of them I have found, for me the lower grade Fox seem to be more appealing visually speaking. They are all works or art when you get up into the high grades but of the guns I have looked at Fox is leading in the low grade guns.

4) I would prefer a gun that was original and not re-finished or restored but that�s not a deal breaker. As long as it looks original. Most important is mechanical condition. And second is what the gun is choked for and third would be looks. I would like a gun on the lighter side 7.5# or less. As chokes go I believe an IC / Full would be perfect for what I will do with the gun. I have seen a few of those. Second choice would be Mod / Full.

5) At First I was going to stay away from the Damascus guns but after reading a lot about them they are not as scary. I�m looking for advice on this issue.

So what do I want to know? With the above info what guns would you select, what guns would you stay away from, what guns are easier to keep running and maybe find parts for?

Any recommendations on gunsmiths that work on these old doubles?

What are some of the best places to buy an old Double? If you know of a gun shop that you trust please share�.. or what online site typically have the most to look at.

What do you guys think about shooting Damascus guns?

From my research it seems like most of these old guns have short chambers. For fold crimp what would be max shell length? For roll crimp what would be max shell length? How to interpret a chamber casting to determine max shell dimensions? I have cast a few rifles that were not marked for caliber.

And lastly gun values. For example what is a reasonable price for a field grade Ithaca Flues 12 gauge original gun with little remaining finish, mechanically sound some pitting with great bores. $600 or $1200 dollars. It�s not that I will ever sell the gun after buying it but I would like to get the most gun for my money is all. I don�t want to buy a plain Ithaca with my $1500 when I could have bought a higher grade Fox for the same. As far as budget I would like to keep it below $1500 if possible.

Thank you for reading thru this terribly long post. I apologize for that but I wanted to be as thorough as possible.

And thanks in advance for your comments
Eddie.

Welcome to the forum, Eddie. Sounds like a game rich place where you live, hunt and fish.

Excellent post. Based upon it I'd recommend a Fox Sterlingworth with 28-30" barrels. No more reliable vintage doublegun exists. Only three moving parts in each lockwork. Reliable ejectors, if you like them (I do). The action rarely fails. "Reasonably" priced because so many were made and sold. And, so many were made and sold because they were such a great value, inexpensive...... but very well made.

And, I agree with you about the visual aspect. No prettier box lock was ever made, IMO.

Best wishes, SRH

see your private messages...re nice early sterlingworth in transit to me...

some answers to your questions:

i would go for the fox sterlingworth... there are really no classic american made doubleguns to stay away from, except for those that suffer abuse...

fox guns are easy to keep running and parts can be found or
made...

as to gunsmiths, currently utilising the services of ray simard in nh...gunter pfrommer in va and lou rotelli in ct...as a matter of interest lou is also an engineer...

places to buy are where the seller guarantees his merchandise and will make deal right for you if undisclosed major problem with gun is discovered upon receipt or limited use...

in general, damascus guns should not be fired on a regular basis...these old relics should be babied and preserved...

as for chamber length, measure with a simple feeler gauge, like the one offered by csmc and others...then purchase or load your own with appropriate length shells...avoid lengthening chambers, as that is frowned upon by some...

as to 12 ga flues values, as you describe your gun, well worn, 12 ga...guess a value of about $250...

as to what to expect to pay for a sterlingworth, as you describe...you should be able to find what you want for around a $1000...

hope this helps...

Thank you Stan. Is there any mechanical differences between the Sterlingworth and the higher grades? Are they just as reliable?

Got it Ed. Send me pics when you get it.

Just as reliable. The internals on a Sterlingworth are exactly like the higher grade Foxes.

SRH

Weren't Sterlingworths the ones that were kinda prone to the receivers cracking ?

Receivers or stocks at the receiver?

My question was to the x'spurtz...hopefully they will explain it to you.

I will say I don't see where I mentioned the stock.