doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Stock Finish Storage Practices

Since Bill's thread was torpedoed, I'd like to restart the discussion. Here's the question: in your opinion, is fancy stock finish storage necessary or do you just leave your finish in the container it came in? If you use a different method or know of one that sounds like a good idea, what is it?

Bill suggested that a screw through the lid of a can / jar allows access without fully opening the lid.
I noticed in the Purdey video, that James MacDonald uses an old gatorade bottle that looks like it has been around for a few decades. Other gunmakers that I've seen use squeeze bottles with tapered spouts.
A woodworking blog somewhere suggested squeeze ketchup bottles with Bloxygen to remove the o2.

Personally, I have kept my home-made slacum brews in glass bottles-- smaller bourbon bottles mostly-- and I recently bought some small brown glass bottles with droppers so that I could easily add a few drops to the stock. (I'm thinking that oxygen is not as big of an issue for slacum, since it is slow to polymerize anyway.)

The StopLoss bags look like the most effective method of keeping air out. But a little difficult to dispense in small volumes, since you pour out what your going to use each time. For an oil finish requiring many applications, this seems like it would be wasteful.

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Woodreaux, It takes two screws. One for the finish to exit and the other to keep the presure equal to atmosphere. Replace the screws promptly before much air intrudes. The stoplose bags look like a really good solution. Can we google up a source?

Looks like there are several sources, including Amazon, but Woodcraft has them available here.

Or you can buy them directly from the manufacturer.

You are neither compressing the air or creating a partial vacuum when you decant part of your bottle of Linspeed Billy. The volume of air that comes into the bottle is exactly the same as the volume of finish that was removed. It makes no difference whether the liquid was poured out of a screw hole in the cap, or if the entire cap was removed. Either way, if you pour out some fluid and promptly reseal the bottle, the same amount of air enters the bottle. The only slight variables might be storage temperature, atmospheric pressure due to altitude, or relative humidity that may accelerate or retard finish degradation. Some years ago, I had a bottle of Linspeed that was very slow to set up and harden. I assume there was insufficient dryer in that batch.

With few exceptions, whether you are storing paints, finishes, gunpowder, food, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, gasoline, ect., the best conditions are cool, dark, and dry. Heat, light, air, and moisture are the storage conditions to avoid.

It couldn't be simpler. But now we have someone who calls Conservatives "Science deniers" repeatedly in denial of some very simple science. Just more evidence that Liberalism is a mental disorder. Time for you to shed some more crocodile tears, and have another hissy-fit... just because someone recognizes the fallacy of your silly notions.

Somewhere, I acquired a bag of cheap marbles for the purpose of minimizing air in finish cans or bottles. There were purpose made for this I believe. Anyway they are a huge PITA and do not solve the problem well enough to bother with.

I just don't buy this method. I can't remember if a particular type of screw was specified in the other thread, but even if it were possible to keep a partial vacuum on the inside of the can when replacing the screw, which it's not, a screw through the lid of a can is not going to be air tight. Even the slightest vacuum, from the removal of a bit of finish, will be replaced by air eventually seeping around the screw threads. Nature abhors a vacuum, and a wood, or machine, screw through a thin piece of sheet metal won't prevent the equalization of pressure, IMO.

My method has always been simple, though not perfect. Store the container upside down after opening, and reclosing. As the air goes up any film forms in the bottom of the container and doesn't hinder removal of finish next time. As I said, it's not the perfect answer, as you still lose finish to "filming", but it seems to help me.

I like Keith's idea of using some other gas to purge most of the oxygen from the container. If someone would package and sell one of those workable gases in an aerosol can, with the little red tube to stick in the nozzle, it seems like it would be a simple and quick solution.

The thing I see as an issue for me with the StopLossBags would be storage. They appear to have to be stored laying down flat, as I don't see how they could stand upright stably. It would require drawer storage for me, which I am woefully short on. I'd much rather keep the finish in it's original container if possible. It's flat bottomed for a good reason.

they do sell an inert gas for that Stan, Bloxygen:

https://www.rockler.com/bloxygen-gas-for-preserving-unused-finishing-materials?country=US&sid=V91041&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=PL&tid=pla&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)_Shopping_-_All_Products&msclkid=1698dcf5e5761b69a140bcd629cf690e

I think the bags stand upright due to how they are shaped. I may try a few and let you know.

Thanks, on both accounts. I didn't remember how Keith said to introduce the gas into your container.

I'll be looking for a report on the bags.

SRH

I believe he uses Argon from his TIG to displace oxygen in the container.

I think there are fancy gizmos for recorking wine without oxygen. You could look into those. Frankly, I don't see a problem at all with Stop Loss bags and they look like they will stand well enough to sit in my shop cupboards. I don't see how Bill's 2-screw method requires a vacuum.

I put plastic wrap across the opening then cap and store upside down, keeps for years. Bobby

BLOxygen is just argon in a small can, if I understand correctly.

The stoploss guys should make a gasketed spout so that a small amount of finish could be dispensed and no additional air would get in even while dispensing. a cap to close it for storage would be good, but if there were a second cap with a gasket, the finish would basically never see air of any kind while in its container. 🤔

The second best option, as far as I can tell, would be a gasketed condiment bottle stored on the cap with argon/BLOxygen in the empty space. Similar idea to the two screws, but stored and dispensed in a way that would minimize air entry.

Stan, I normally use Ultramix 80-20 Argon CO2 as shielding gas for my MIG welder. Knowing that this inert gas is heavier than air, I simply lift the wire feed wheels on my MIG, and then use the gun to squirt gas into the open can of finish to displace the air in the can. A few seconds seems to be plenty for a partial quart container. Then I quickly reseal the can. I started doing this after I read about Bloxygen, but then realized that I had both a 220 cu. ft. and a 90 cu. ft. cylinder of inert gas already in my shop, on my welders.

I began using it to preserve moisture cure urethane paint, which is great stuff, but too expensive to have partial cans turn to rubber. I agree that the Stop Loss bags look interesting, but they also look like a pain in the ass to fill with unused finish, easily punctured, and you no longer have the original labeling information. They are also fairly expensive for saving small quantities.... much more costly than a squirt of inert gas.

I can see rocky mtn bill buying some of these plastic bags, and trying to improve them by poking a couple drywall screws into them... because he has it in his head that his screws will magically exclude the air that causes unused finishes to degrade or harden in the can or bottle. But that is the dangerous sort of intellect that makes a gun owner vote for the Democrats who want to eliminate gun rights.

Self-imposed ignorance and conscientious stupidity are a toxic combination. Keith embodies both. I don't claim any credit for the screws; I just saw that Dave's LinSpeed was still good after a long storage. If reporting that makes me look foolish to Keith. then I say he can take a .... at a rolling donut.

How many torpedos does it take to sink a thread?

stick around. we might find out...

I would like to add that many plastic storage containers are made of certain plastics that will allow solvents to escape at the molecular level making what you put in them to thicken over time. Also I do like to keep things in their original container if at all possible because you never know when you may need the health and safety information on the packaging. My method of keeping things especially paints and other items containing solvents is to remove Oxygen from the container and making sure the container closure is in good condition. In the photograph is a very low cost tin of Butane gas specifically for refilling gas lighters. By using one of the many adapters that come with the gas a bottle top and a short length of tubing and ingenuity you can come up with this simple air displacer. Butane is flammable but just as flammable as the many solvents used in the products, before closing the lid or top of the container I give a quick burst of gas to remove the air. I have found that doing this simple step things stay in usable condition for many years.

I use Stanton Hills' method of storing the opened container upside down. I never could collect the necessary number and sizes of marbles to precisely expel all the air without overflowing.

First off Billy, as a retired English teacher, you ought to know the meaning of the word "conscientious"--

con·sci·en·tious
/ˌkän(t)SHēˈen(t)SHəs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: conscientious

1.
(of a person) wishing to do what is right, especially to do one's work or duty well and thoroughly.
"a conscientious and hardworking clerk"

It is so fitting that in your latest personal attack, you attempt to accuse me of stupidity and self-imposed ignorance, and then go on show us that you are both stupid and ignorant, via your malapropism. But we already knew that. You probably do not know what a malapropism is either, so let me help you:

mal·a·prop
/ˈmaləˌpräp/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: malapropism

the mistaken use of a word in place of a similar-sounding one, often with unintentionally amusing effect, as in, for example, “dance a flamingo ” (instead of flamenco ).

I never said that you claimed credit for the drywall screws. I simply told you why your idea that they would prevent oxygen laden air from entering the bottle of Linspeed, as you dispensed liquid, was wrong and goofy. It was even sillier for you to double-down on stupidity. You did not just relate your observations. You backed up your silly claims with even sillier ideas. I too have had cans or bottles of unused finish that did not quickly harden or skin over in the original container for some time... without any drywall screws in the lids. But more often than not, once a can is opened, the remaining shelf life is reduced dramatically. Some products, such as polyurethane (Gorilla) glues, can harden in an unopened bottle in a year or so. Different storage conditions give different results.

I also provided you and others who you misinformed with a couple much better options. Those who own a MIG or TIG welder already have access to inert shielding gas. Bloxygen is not terribly expensive, compared to repeatedly wasting finish, paints, etc.

Finally, I don't attack you just for the sake of attacking you... even though you vote for anti-gun Democrats. You should recall that I gave you credit for your knowledge about walnut when Bob Cash and Queen Stevie demonstrated their inability to see the glaring difference between a blank of feather-crotch black walnut, and a finished stock made of thin shell walnut. So quit being such a hyper-sensitive crybaby. In my world, we do not hand out trophies and praise for being wrong... just to spare the feelings of thin-skinned Libtards. I commented on your assertions because they are wrong.

The butane recommended by Damascus will indeed work well. In the deleted Thread, I mentioned propane used in common propane torches as another heavier-than-air alternative. Like butane, the disadvantage is that it is flammable, and argon-CO2 isn't. As a hydrocarbon based gas, the greater reactivity of either butane or propane probably would not be an issue with most stock finishes.

Hey billie keith, speaking of walnut, were you ever able to figure out what a quarter sawn stock blank looks like? Not likely.

Yes I was quite correct about the subject... but you are still misinformed.

Check page 54 of the December 2019 issue of Fine Woodworking Magazine for an explanation and an illustration... but I don't expects facts, pictures, or reason to penetrate your skull.

I suggest you take that article to all the sellers of gunstock blanks and straighten them out. I'm sure you know better than the whole industry.

A regular legend in your own mind.

Why do these interesting and informative topics always seem to turn into a personal argument? Grow up, some of you.

What did you personally find interesting and informative Dave??? Was it silly assertions about drywall screws, or real practical methods of keeping oxygen laden air from reacting with stock finish, resulting in premature degradation of the product?

Or was it perhaps an off-topic rant about the definition "quarter-sawn" lumber from Queen Stevie, a buffoon who has already demonstrated that he/she doesn't even know the difference between feather-crotch black walnut and thin shell walnut... even when the differences are specifically pointed out?

Or is it neither, and there is instead some motivation for permitting misinformation to stand unchallenged, all because some people are too sensitive to handle a debate, discussion, or argument on the internet?

Perhaps this would better be answered in a new Thread, because Woodreaux seemed pretty concerned that this new Thread might get torpedoed, and deleted faster than a Trump Tweet.

Looks like billie keith is getting an early start on his weekend meltdown.

Is anyone surprised? I'm not.

Notice who who it is that consistently takes threads off track and into personal attacks Dave, the same two bozos it always is, billie and frAnk.

Nah Queen Stevie, but I sure triggered you into another one of your melt-downs.

That was my original intention when I reminded Billy about your inability to tell the difference between feather-crotch black walnut and thin shell walnut on Bob Cash's Superlight Upgrade. Knowing that you lurk here all day every day, it was easier than shooting doves off of a telephone line. Thanks.

You are projecting again princess....

I have been multi tasking today. A fair bit of restoration work as well as a custom part on the CNC mill for a take down rifle I am building.

What did you do gunsmithing related today?

Earlier, I replaced a damaged transducer that stopped providing feedback, and I programmed it with the correct hexadecimal address. It was so obviously damaged that even you might have been able to find the problem. You just wouldn't have been able to fix it. Shortly after that, I pinged the I.P. address of an Ethernet card in a PLC rack to find out why it was not communicating with an HMI. It was good, so I traced the communication loss to a poor connection elsewhere on the network. Then I ate lunch.

I am not employed as a gunsmith. You ostensibly are... which makes your lack of knowledge about walnut especially revealing. Multitasking.... hahahaha, that's funny. Did your trade school education teach you how to spend hours every day on Doublegunshop.com while your customers wait to get their guns fixed by sub-contractors?

I became bored troubleshooting network issues and changed careers. I was a very good tech and worked from the CO to the customer premise on hi-cap circuits as well as working on the fiber muxes in our local network which I taught myself to do by taking home the manuals from work and learning TL-1 on my own. My last job in the telecomunications sector was as a fiber network engineer. Your trouble shooting skills fail to impress me.

There is plenty of my work and my shop shown on this site with more to come shortly.

Any of your work to share princess?

Queen Stevie, I remember when you had trouble accurately describing how you wired up a time-delay on your shop air compressor, and also didn't even know what a Megger is or does. Even the dumbest electronic techs I know have that knowledge. So I'm just going to throw the bullshit flag on your electrical skills or knowledge. And we already have seen that you don't know very much about walnut either.

Now, if we wanted to know about farming out gunsmithing jobs, bashing Donald Trump , Festivus poles, and gay pride issues, then you would be our go-to guy or gal.

Woodreaux can't see my posts, so I wonder if he will comment on you taking his Stock Finish preservation Thread into the weeds. I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.