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SOOOOO
What metals are in the bullet?
How do you know?

Last edited by skeettx; 02/12/21 05:08 PM.
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[spoiler][/spoiler]Guys, I put everything you need to know in my post.

I put the density of lead and tin in their grains per cubic centimeter, I provided the volume of the bullet in cubic centimeters and did the math for you.

I don’t think any of you read my post that showed that the bullet in question is a 50-50 mix of lead and tin by volume.

There is the small possibility, that because of the shape of the lead atom that the tin atom might be able to hide within the matrix to some degree, resulting in a decrease in volume with a mixture of the alloy, But I don’t think so.

Last edited by ClapperZapper; 02/12/21 03:47 PM.

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Originally Posted by skeettx
SOOOOO
What metals are in the bullet?
How do you know?
It is a good question, and I still assume it is some lead/tin alloy, but I have inquired of a friend who is in the jewelry business. Hopefully she knows someone local with a mass spec machine who will be willing to analyze the bullet


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Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
[spoiler][/spoiler]Guys, I put everything you need to know in my post.

I put the density of lead and tin in their grains per cubic centimeter, I provided the volume of the bullet in cubic centimeters and did the math for you.

I don’t think any of you read my post that showed that the bullet in question is a 50-50 mix of lead and tin by volume.

There is the small possibility, that because of the shape of the lead atom that the tin atom might be able to hide within the matrix to some degree, resulting in a decrease in volume with a mixture of the alloy, But I don’t think so.
I did read it, but it seemed so improbable that what little math skill I have was stuck in an endless loop of what-the-h..... And yes I do appreciate your contribution. Mike Rowe wrote here last year that these 1880s-1890s bullets were usually 12:1 alloy. I am chasing down the mass spec machine, because it seems the only way to really resolve this question.


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Gentlemen,
Are we not missing the known unknown?

Pamtnman in his post on 10th February says the “original bullet has the copper peg in the tip”.

If, as I take it the bullet is for a British black powder express rifle, the “peg” is likely to be the closed top end of a copper tube, extending perhaps half way down the bullet and filled with air (or perhaps fulminate?) to promote sudden and violent expansion on impact.

In case it is fulminate I would suggest not trying to dismantle it.

The hollow is likely to be at least the volume of a 40 grain .22 bullet (perhaps narrower but longer) and would easily account for the difference.

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CZ,
The 1.52:1 ratio was by weight as that is how casting is done, but you are right that the problem has to be solved by volume given what we had to work with. I'm happy with my math.

But the copper peg issue kills it and if the bullets are not cast in the same mould or die, then this all becomes even more pointless. Subtle differences that are very hard to detect via "hairy eyeball" can make huge differences in final weight of the bullet.


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The reason I ask what elements
is that my cast alloys may contain, lead, tin, antimony,
silver, arsenic, and other trace stuff

Mike

fun reading

https://oregontrailbullets.com/xcart/laser-cast-lead-bullets.html

Last edited by skeettx; 02/12/21 05:13 PM.
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I don’t know where the other data came from.

I just took the information that the original poster posted, and did the math.

Two seemingly identical bullets, one is lighter. Why? Because the alloy is less dense.

I took his post to mean he acquired some bullets that were different, and couldn’t figure out why. And wanted to know what the mix might be.

Never saw, or read anything other than his first request for help before I grabbed a pen and a napkin.

Composing a reply that would defang the peanut gallery took longer than solving the equation.

Last edited by ClapperZapper; 02/12/21 08:52 PM.

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I think Parabola has the answer, you first need to know the volume and weight of the copper tube before proceeding. Once you know the tubes weight and volume it can be subtracted from that of the bullet and at that point you can begin to figure out the composition of the bullet alloy.


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Backing up, if it was known to be a paper patch bullet and suspected to be swayed, it is likely a softer alloy and specific percentages may not matter quite as much. The size of the copper tube void(?) can probably be calculated. But, to make it shoot, is it better to get the length of the bullet close or the weight, for the same shape?

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