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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22 |
In regards to my previous request for information on William Ford gunmakers of Birmingham, I noticed in the book, Birmingham Gunmakers by Douglas Tate, that he references the existence of the Ford records in the 1990’s. Does anyone by chance know how to contact Mr. Tate? Thanks, Sandlapper
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 272 Likes: 56
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 272 Likes: 56 |
I would guess that the records were held by the people who ran Wm Ford until they retired a few years ago .The name of the chap eludes me atm !!!!
It may have been a Mr Thornton....
Last edited by Imperdix; 02/21/21 12:03 PM. Reason: Addition
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,152 Likes: 317
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,152 Likes: 317 |
Douglas Tate used to occasionally log into this board. See list of member names - he's under "Douglas Tate" "writer. I also may have an email address for him.
Last edited by Argo44; 02/21/21 02:24 PM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16 |
Last time I saw Doug Tate, he was living in Walla Walla, WA. He prefers to be contacted via e-mail. Unfortunately, my contacts file is toast, so no help here.
C Man
Life is short
Quit your job.
Turn off the TV.
Go outside and play.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22 |
Gentlemen, Thanks for the information.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18 |
I suggest you contact Ralph Stuart.
rstuart@shootingsportsman.com
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,152 Likes: 317
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,152 Likes: 317 |
Sandlapper, PM sent. Gene
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 96 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 96 Likes: 3 |
I spoke with Sir Malcolm Guthrie late of Bailons Gunmakers who bought William Ford and J. Carr, about 18 months ago.
He told me he has the manufacturing books for William ford but not the sales ledgers. as far as J Carr is concerned he told me all he got was the brass company plaque from outside the building!
If anyone knows where the ford sales ledgers are, please let me know.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22 |
Thanks to all you gentlemen for your help; I was able to contact Douglas Tate who supplied information on William Ford gunmakers in general, and from that I learned of the eventual fate of Ford which was sold to Bailons, Ltd. in Feb.1991 and then the ceasing of business by Bailons in 1993 as stated earlier in this thread. I have a Ford 20 bore Best sidelock, built in 1937, SN 1734x,with 25” Churchill ribbed barrels, orig. 2 3/4” Birmingham proofs, weighing 5 lbs. 6 ozs. Apparently, from the info that Mr. Tate supplied, Ford ran a full service shop, from rebarreling, repair, and custom built one-off guns to many guns for the trade. Anyway, I would love to find out who this gun was built for, as it has a 15 1/4” LOP straight stock with 25” barrels.Any clues as to the whereabouts of the sales ledger would be appreciated greatly. Thanks, Sandlapper
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22 |
Alan, I would guess that the mfg. books would give specifics on construction of each gun, but not their eventual owner or destination. Is that correct? Would you be so kind as to give me Sir Malcolm Guthrie’s contact info if possible so I ask him about this gun? It would be much appreciated. Regards, Marcus
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 531 Likes: 18 |
Sandlapper,
Two examples of factory records -
William Powell & Son has serial number books and day books. The serial number books have the date of sale, purchaser's name and the serial number.
The day books contain the purchaser's name, date of sale, dimensions and the price of the gun and accessories.
John Rigby & Co. also has (late 19th Century on) serial number books and day books. The serial number books contain all identifying numbers on the
action and barrels, dimensions, purchaser's name and the date of sale. Rigby's Dublin operation closed in 1897 and their record keeping was slightly
different than the London office. Rigby's day books have the purchaser's name, date of sale, brief description of the firearm and the cost of
the gun and any accessories purchased that same day.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 96 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 96 Likes: 3 |
sandlapper. You have a PM.
Regards
AlanD
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 355 Likes: 22 |
Gentlemen, Thanks very much for your help. I will try to contact Mr. Guthrie. Marcus
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 6 |
Sandlapper,
I sent you text message with a photo of a Wm Ford gun box label that I have. It might be unused or a really good reproduction. I had my eye on a beautiful Wm Ford 26" BLNE in England. I just could never get the deal done. Bought the label just in case I got the gun. It's yours if you want it.
I expect to see you at the Southern SxS next month. If you want to look at English maker's cases that may fit the Ford, please let me know. I have many that need refitting, rebuild and/or restoration. Most are for 30" guns. I have a few that are for 26" guns. It should be an easy modification to 25". I am not planning on bringing cases to the Southern, so let me know.
Joe in Charlotte
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
In 1986 I visited the Ford shop. At that time they were located at; 352 Mosley Road Birmingham. The Managing Director was A D Thornton. The purpose of my visit was to research a Ford shotgun, made circa 1923 and replacement barrels that they had made for a Charles Lancaster O/U/ shotgun. I was shown their sales ledger entry my gun it gave complete details of the gun and the name of the original owner. I was well received and given a photo copy of the entry for my gun. It would seem the record book has gone astray in that Sir Malcom dose not have them!
As a matter of interest the company letter head reads ,incorporating James Carr.
Roy Hebbes
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 96 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 96 Likes: 3 |
Interesting that the sales ledgers for Ford giving details of the purchaser did still exist in the 1980's. I wonder where they are now if they are not with Sir Malcolm?
The address for Ford at 352 Moseley Street was next door but one to Alfred J Parker at number 348 Moseley Street.
Regards
AlanD
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