doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com British shotguns better than American shotguns?

Is it a 115 year old crack free L.C. Smith, as it left the factory, or, does it have the modern miracle of hardening propolymer (plastic) worked into the wood in an attempt to keep those cracks at bay?

I already know the answer, but, you know, just sayin’.

Back when gun shows were a thing, and I either had a table, or, attended almost all of them, I used to bet my buddy how many stockless ‘Smiths we would see. Truth was, with old doubles or single shots, it wasn’t real hard to find different guns without a stock, but, most of them could be counted on to be L.C. Smiths. We usually bet lunch, which was almost always a hot dog, and I got to eat a lot of them I never bought.

Randy Murray told me if it wasn’t for LC Smiths, neither, he, nor his father would have made a good living as a gun smith.

I get it, you guys like your LC Smiths, but, if the topic is is a comparison with even run of the mill English stuff, I have a hard time grasping how you come up with a ‘Smith being on par, or, even funnier, better.

Guys restore and drive Vegas. And, Pintos. And, Yugos. I don’t get that, either, but, whatever.

When you get out there to do some shooting, I hope you have a high score, but, I’ll pray that your gun doesn’t break. That is a prayer you can use, Padre.

Best,
Ted

"I already know the answer"

You would be wrong Ted. And please reference a quotation by me that states Smith guns are "better" than British.

Long cold winter clouding your usual sunny disposition?
It's 77, the sun is shining, and Spring Training is on here in Paradise Hard to be grateful and grouchy at the same time; I'll choose the former.

Gotta say, I’m with Ted on this one. Was at a show and shine a couple years ago with my son. There was an absolutely perfect AMC Matador. I could not find a fault......you know, except for the vehicle itself. I mean, what is the point? Yes, it can get you to the corner store or work and back but they were objectively ugly, and poor excuses for cars. Much like their stablemate.....Pacers and Gremlins.

It doesn’t only happen with cars.

You haven’t taken your own advice, preacher? I’ll say two or three prayers for your gun.

Uh, the whole thread is about our opinions on “better” guns, you seemed to come down on this side of the fence with your comment.
Not sure what you believe at the moment. That, is OK.
My disposition is just fine, it is very sunny and 55 or so, supposed to be low 60s tomorrow, the cool temps will keep the heat waves from being an issue at the gun club tomorrow, where the boy and I will likely shoot a few rounds of skeet and trap.

With Belgian and Japanese guns, actually. Pretty sure neither of us will be concerned about them breaking.

Have a great day.

Best,
Ted

My advice is here Ted
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784

"After carefully checking the stock and finding no cracks or oil soaking, you might paint the head of the stock and lockplate inlets with an ultra-thin cyanoacrylate glue like Goat Tuff Glue."

Neither the No. 0 16g nor the No. 00 12g have cracks at the head of the stock. Because of my hopeless flinch, I use 3/4 oz. at 1200 fps loads for both. If they haven't cracked now, I think they are unlikely to do so.

So since you can't find my statement that Smiths are "better" than English guns, and have chosen to misrepresent my "advice", possibly you could share your motivation for doing so?
And please call me Drew.

Drew,
I have no wish to misrepresent anyone here. I am pointing out that people on many gun websites have noted that there can be an issue with the LC Smith guns. We can split hairs, and say the feather light guns are worse, or, we can simply keep it general and generic to this brand of gun. If a guy had his ‘Smith apart, and found no cracks or oil soaking, truly, he is blessed and should consider the immediate purchase of a lottery ticket.

He might want to consider the purchase of some glue on the same trip. Says you, anyway.

Maybe posting about your American guns here, in a thread about which is better Yank, or Brit, would lead one to infer that you are of the opinion that the subject of your post is the one you believe to be the better of the two.

Or, maybe I used the word “guys”, plural, and it wasn’t directed at anyone specifically. Truly sorry if you took umbrage at that, really, I am.

Might you indulge me, and post that list that we used to see here, of all the really good gunsmiths that have washed their hands of ‘Smiths, and won’t work on them for love nor money?

I misplaced my copy.

Hey, shoot well, and safely!

Best,
Ted

OK, who makes the best vehicle; Ford or Chevy? Sounds like this discussion has become equivalent to that pointless kind of argument. Personally I don't care which countries gun is considered the "best; and although I do own one beautiful old British gun, my personal tastes are for what would be considered the better American double guns. No good reason, I just do; but I had no trouble killing game or smashing clays with my English gun or any of the American guns I've owned. And although I do believe most British guns are much finer finished internally than their American counterparts, it's my opinion that even the least expensive American made Parker, Smith, Fox, Ithaca, Baker, etc. double gun was as rugged and reliable as any other double gun; and so effective that the game bird populations of the US were nearly wiped out by the turn of the last century. Most of that destruction was performed with American made guns as few period American shooters could afford imported English guns. There's little wonder that many survivors have cracked stocks, and other issues given the use and abuse that most received. The overwhelming majority of American made double guns were a maker's lowest grade, and least expensive gun; they were purchased mostly as tools, and treated in that manner. The cheap British "game keepers" guns I've seen fared no better. When it comes to quality American made double guns, based on the research I've done with the few surviving company records we have available, the number of high grade guns produced ($200 and up) is tiny; and less than 1% of total production by any maker. Inexpensive guns keep the doors to these old companies open, and I for one am glad we still have them to enjoy.

Topgun's point is well made.

But going back to the comparative aspect of this spirited argument I would point out the stark differences in how, and who, hunted in Britain. If, in America, hunting were only for the wealthy and privaledged, then it would just as likely have arrisen that the guns for such endeavor would have been far more focused on that price point.

Secondly, it's worth noting that the high-end focus for Brit doubles does not extend to much else. The British are world famous for their snoot, but not at all for any general asthetic of metculousness in building/design/production. And BTW, the French similar. They did BEAUTY, but not necessarly quality.

Germany, on the other hand... They can point to their guild guns and rightly claim that this is how they were made, not because of price point, but because they made EVERYTHING thusly....right down to the smallest thing. Their roads, their doorknobs, and their toothpicks.

Germans...made...quality.

One cannot claim this about Britain. There was not, nor is there today, any greater general asthetic for quality there than in the United States. I lived there, and have travelled there.

My point is, while their "best guns" are better, it's only because of who bought them...not because Brits are "wired to build quality things." Thats utterly untrue. Go buy an English car...it doesnt matter what price you paid...you will curse the thing after a month.

Germany could actually claim a national quality asthetic. At least THEN. But Germany today is changing rapidly...we may not say the same thing in the future.

NDG

There is one category of gun that the British made very well, the refined properly made single shot.

Not the rough gamekeeper type, but refined single shot guns made for people who hunted but were not invited to shooting weekends.

The balance and handling of these overlooked English singles is unrivaled. That is one category where I would concede that the English makers outshine the rest. But the ledgers show no lords or earls as the original purchasers, hence no cachet for these guns. Most of these singles are hammer guns but there is nothing rough about them. Every internal part is finished to high gunmaking standards. I have yet to see equal work on singles from any non English makers.

As the owner of a hammerless single shot J&W Tolley, I would concur.