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Mike325 Offline OP
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Bought this gun and I have a few Qs I'm hoping you guys can help me with. Any info/opinions on any of the below would be a great help!

1)what is the oval hole in the stock in pic #1 below?
2) are the initials in the stock from factory or is that added by a previous owner do u think?
3) do u think it would ruin the gun if I had chambers bored to accept 2 3/4" shells? I don't mean in terms of would it be unsafe, I mean "ruining it" more in terms of taking a cool old gun and sporterizing it which to me kind of ruins a gun.
4) do u think I should leave the stock as is or refinish it? Rest of gun is pretty good (see last pic) but stock has a lot of small dents and dings.

Thx for any help and/or any opinions. Cheers! Mike

P.S. I added pics of all proof marks etc FYI/for reference

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[img]https://i.postimg.cc/HnDFSFXh/A2-E9-BEBE-80-EF-4621-951-F-706581011-CB7.jpg[/img]

Last edited by Mike325; 04/12/21 12:47 PM.
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Mike325 Offline OP
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Oops looks like that last pic isn't showing up. Here it is.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Also I just remembered that there are no engravings on the end of the barrel and I wonder if that is normal for this era? I have a 1950s (gdr) sauer SxS 12 gauge and it has simple engravings at the end of the barrel. Thx!

Last edited by Mike325; 04/12/21 12:53 PM.
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The hole is where the initial oval was. Don’t know about initials carved in stock, gun looks great and original. I wouldn’t lengthen chambers or refinish the wood unless it was cracked. Very nice. Raimey will be along soon and read you it’s pedigree. Nice find. Excellent case colors.

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Given the condition of this gun, to lengthen chambers would come close to vandalism. Shorter shells are at least as available as longer ones and just as effective.


Bill Ferguson
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Mike325 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jtplumb
The hole is where the initial oval was. Don’t know about initials carved in stock, gun looks great and original. I wouldn’t lengthen chambers or refinish the wood unless it was cracked. Very nice. Raimey will be along soon and read you it’s pedigree. Nice find. Excellent case colors.
Cool and thanks! By initial oval does that mean where the sling mount was originally and they moved it? Please forgive my ignorance if there is supposed to be something else there that should be obvious. I'm pretty new to these guns but learned a lot reading some previous threads which had links to serial #s list etc and that's how I figured out the age. Looks to me that it wasn't shot much but probably moved around over the years thus the little dings in the stock (guessing). Cheers!

Last edited by Mike325; 04/12/21 04:15 PM.
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I would never buy one of these fine old guns that has had the chambers lengthened, ever. It is unnecessary vandalism when correct ammo is available commercially from RST. Your gun appears to be in excellent original condition and simply should stay that way.
Dennis


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Mike,
The oval in the stock had an oval piece of metal( Brass, Nickel Silver, Silver ?) let into it, that may have had initials engraved into it. The initials stamped into the stock are a little unusual, but may have been placed there by the workmen that did the stock work and checkering. The stock may be a special request. The 12 in a circle means it has 65mm( 2 5/8") chambers, the 13 is the diameter of the barrels( expressed in gauge measurement) ahead of the chamber. The left barrel is choked( as shown by the crown W), but amount of constriction is not shown. The crown S means the barrels were proofed for shot. The crown U, with an eagle over it means it underwent a View proof, after undergoing a definitive proof with the provisional proof charge. The view proof is a detailed inspection, including verification of dimensions. The Shul proof house started dating them in the early 1920s and this one doesn't show a date, so it was likely made before 1923; The type of proof marks indicate it was proofed after about 1911. The Large crown and "Wildman" stamps are not proof marks, rather they are JP Sauer and son house marks. Whether you have the chambers lengthened or not is entirely your choice. Some people shoot them "as is" with 2 3/4" shells, some people have long forcing cones reamed and use 2 3/4" shells, some people have the chambers lengthened, some people buy short shells. Most people have a strong opinion, one way or the other; but I'm not aware of any damage caused by any of them.
Mike

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Mike325 Offline OP
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Thanks Dennis, much appreciated! I have to say that I do cringe when I see a cool old military rifle that has been sporterized. I just didn't know if lengthening the chambers falls into the same "sacrilege" category though laugh Everybody has different opinions on sporterizing of course but I hate to do unreversable mods if it kind of ruins the gun.

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Mike325 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Der Ami
Mike,
The oval in the stock had an oval piece of metal( Brass, Nickel Silver, Silver ?) let into it, that may have had initials engraved into it. The initials stamped into the stock are a little unusual, but may have been placed there by the workmen that did the stock work and checkering. The stock may be a special request. The 12 in a circle means it has 65mm( 2 5/8") chambers, the 13 is the diameter of the barrels( expressed in gauge measurement) ahead of the chamber. The left barrel is choked( as shown by the crown W), but amount of constriction is not shown. The crown S means the barrels were proofed for shot. The crown U, with an eagle over it means it underwent a View proof, after undergoing a definitive proof with the provisional proof charge. The view proof is a detailed inspection, including verification of dimensions. The Shul proof house started dating them in the early 1920s and this one doesn't show a date, so it was likely made before 1923; The type of proof marks indicate it was proofed after about 1911. The Large crown and "Wildman" stamps are not proof marks, rather they are JP Sauer and son house marks. Whether you have the chambers lengthened or not is entirely your choice. Some people shoot them "as is" with 2 3/4" shells, some people have long forcing cones reamed and use 2 3/4" shells, some people have the chambers lengthened, some people buy short shells. Most people have a strong opinion, one way or the other; but I'm not aware of any damage caused by any of them.
Mike
Thx so much Mike for the detailed info! I'll have to look for a replacement for the little oval but I'm guessing it may be hard to find an original one?

I was thinking the same thing about initials being from workmen doing the checkering just due to the fact they are inset where the checkering comes together (I guess I envision when they get to the end point of checkering that might be where they put their initials, but honestly I have no idea on that). It a straight style stock (no pistol grip) fwiw.

I think I'll not touch the chambers as the 2 1/2" shells seem to be about the same price as 2 3/4" currently and I kinda hate to mess with the originality of the gun. What got me thinking about lengthening was this 2017 field and stream article fwiw/FYI:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/How-to-Restore-Vintage-Double/

Cheers and thx!

Last edited by Mike325; 04/12/21 05:32 PM.
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Great set of 3 Ringe tubes that wear a Sauer Quality Stamp & it would be sacrilege to alter them. As Ford said >>FA<< notes effort by a Suhl mechanic & I would say Adamy as I have seen many sets of >>FA<< initials on the flats but not on the wood as I recall. With the >>Nitro<< low on the flats it will date to towards the end of WWI up to 1923.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

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