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Anyone care to make a stab @ the correct term in French for shotgun with grip safety, or similar? I thought a Clément mechanic might be the culprit but no joy thus far. Well, if pistol grip safeties migrated to scatterguns??

https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Clement/clement.html



Serbus,

Raimey
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>>fusil de chasse avec poignée de sécurité en stock<<

A bastard attempt mind you, but it is headed in the right direction?


Serbus,

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Externally, the grip safety looks like a 'Manton style' that blocks movement of the triggers.
In my experience, these are the most commonly seen.

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Steve comes thru in a clinch. Oh the depth of knowledge here.....

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

So the Belgians adopted Manton's novel addition.

[[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Cheers & Serbus,

Raimey
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My apologies for not paying attention.
The barrels are Bernard I
Made by one of several Liege Bernards, or more likely acquired from a tube maker and just stamped 'EB'
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fMs-Mn60ei9QsRcHT5Urm_eHobzJnaDKZiP3FP0fXb0/edit

I don't find an 'AC' in the Syndicat des Fabricants de Canons de Fusil de la Vesdre so Bro. Raimey's guess is better than mine.

Last edited by Drew Hause; 05/19/21 04:59 PM.
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smp190 Offline OP
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Wow, you guys should get together and write a book or do a podcast! So I am gathering that the Belgium gun makers stole designs, used fake barrel stamps and sold inexpensive “replicas”. I have to say that finding the Manton designed grip safety and looking at my gun it appears that my statement is correct. Kind of like what China does now 😀.

So much to learn. Does anybody want to take a stab at my gun’s value?

Regards
Steve

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"fusil de chasse avec poignée de sécurité en stock"

Not bad Raimey...actually I haven't a clue an searching passionlachasse etc. nothing comes up. but here are comments on the French terms:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=480959

The gun is a SxS muzzle loader so technically it should be called".
-- Fusil à percussion (percussion gun)
-- Fusil à chargement par la bouche (muzzle loading rifle)
-- Fusil de chasse juxtaposé à chargement par la bouche (SxS muzzle loading shotgun)
-- Fusil de chasse à percussion juxtaposé à chargement par la bouche (SxS muzzleloading hammergun shotgun)

The stock should be:
-- la crosse anglaise (straight stock)
-- poingee (pistol grip)

The safety should be:
-- sécurité; sûreté (safety)
-- levier de sécurité (safety lever)

So I'd hazard the following:
Fusil de chasse à percussion juxtaposé à chargement par la bouche avec levier de sécurité en dessous de la crosse anglaise.

Last edited by Argo44; 05/19/21 10:49 PM.

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Originally Posted by smp190
.....So I am gathering that the Belgium gun makers stole designs, used fake barrel stamps and sold inexpensive “replicas”. I have to say that finding the Manton designed grip safety and looking at my gun it appears that my statement is correct. Kind of like what China does now 😀.

I really wouldn't state it that way as the Chinese aren't all that smart as they steal technology @ every turn(pay the Eastern Europeans and Russians to do their hacking dirty-work) and the Belgians could make a pricepoint weapon one day & an upper rung the next and not check up, while the Chinese don't care about the Sigma/error/QA-QC and they just turn out junk all the time .

True Eugene Bernard was in it for the Benjamins but the mechanic here used a parts kit & IMPORTED the Manton Safety Grip technology to meet the whims of his client. I don't think I've seen a 2 Barrel Set that was a box of junk. The Belgians were very talented and worked for pennies so they were heavily sourced for pricepoint weapons. Really after say circa 1870, no gunmaking centre in the world could turn out quality pattern welded tubes for the price as the Belgians could. They did have pride in their work but would make what one ordered.

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Originally Posted by Argo44
Fusil de chasse à percussion juxtaposé à chargement par la bouche avec levier de sécurité en dessous de la crosse anglaise.


Thanks Argo for the effort and I sure wish I could have worked in the language of French whilst in school but I was too consumed w/ 1s & 0s and their associated protocol. It would have been most beneficial being in the oh so many French speaking provinces.

Serbus,

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Some additional thoughts on the 'grip safety' - aka - the 'safety guard.'

The Purdey/Wyatt Patent No.4218 of 1818 blocked both the hammer and trigger. The 'Manton style,' to which
I previously referred, blocked the triggers. J.H. Walsh, author of The Sportsman's Gun and Rifle (1882)
credited Manton with the design - but there is no patent that supports his attribution. Additionally, Neal and
Back's definitive books on the Mantons make no such claim.

There were a number of designs available. The Purdey/Wyatt and the 'Manton style' used a long bar below the
trigger guard tang. The difference of their operation might not be apparent to a casual observer. Powell
used another design as well, that I can't link to a patent. It had a 1 1/4" by 1/4" rectangular piece that
substituted for the longer bar of other designs.

I have documented these safeties being installed on Powell guns as late as 1909. If you are familiar with the design
of the grip safety on a M1911 Colt - you'll note that it blocks the trigger in a manner similar to the "Manton style."

Not to be outdone, the Rossons (P.J. & C.S.) were granted Patent No.4883 in 1913 for a grip safety.

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