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Great into and pictures.....this is surely part of the dawn of pin-fire breech-loaders in UK. Wondering about the Birmingham proof marks (if they are there). This Blanch may well be 1856-57.


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Hi Steve, many thanks for posting for me. I spent an hour today browsing through some old (relatively!) Southams catalogs, and found some pinfire lots. I will put them all on here, as they did not have accompanying photographs. Some will be very scarce on info, but if I use the lot description, perhaps you can weed out the wheat from the chaff? Regards Dave


14b Pinfire D/B shotgun by Ebrall, Shrewsbury. This would have been Samuel Ebrall ?. Southams 19th September 1996. No Visible Number.
14b pinfire D/B shotgun by Erskine ,Newton Stewart. S/No. 1619 Southams 19th September 1996.
14b pinfire D/B shotgun by Wiggan & Elliott (built on Elliotts patent action, pat. 1782 of 1863). Whitworth Steel Barrels. NVN. Southams March 1998.
12b Pinfire D/B shotgun by Harvey of Exeter. Re-staocked. browned damascus barrels, NVN Southams March 1998.
12b Pinfire D/B shotgun by S W Berry. (That would be Sharman West Berry, Woodbridge, Suffolk) NVN. Southams March 2000. (I had, until recently, a Joseph Berry, Worksop, pinfire).
12b Pinfire D/B shotgun by Jos. Harkom. 30" damascus barrels, game scene engraved, Jones Underlever, S/No. 563. (No.1 of pair) Southams September 2000.
14b pinfire D/B shotgun by Smith & Alden, . NVN. CASED, with accessories. Southams 21st June 2001.
12b pinfire D/B sporting gun by H. Holland. NVN. Southams 21st March 2002. (I sold a H Holland pinfire at Ryedal auctions in the last 18 months, will try to retrieve the full info on it).

My apologies for the very scarce info, but sadly the smaller auction rooms treated old pinfires, and hammer guns, as merely wallpieces! Hence the lack of detail. Most of these little catalogs did not have photographs in them. As we move on to better stuff, I,m hoping my wife will help me scan the catalog entry, and any pictures.

Regards dave

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Ivanhoe, that information is useful. Whenever I hear mention of a British pinfire game gun, I try to match the information to my list of potential pinfire makers. The list has been derived by dates, including gunmakers in operation between 1853 and 1870 who did not identify themselves solely as pistol or rifle makers. The list is but a starting point, as it will indeed include firms of this period that ended their business making percussion guns and never transitioned into the breech-loading era. It will also include firms that began in the 1860s, which started making central-fire guns only. Some makers on the list barely lasted a year, and their output is unknown. So I find it satisfying to find a match between known pieces and this list, which currently includes 922 names.

I note on your list a 14-bore pinfire by James Erskine of Newton Stewart, number 1619. The number is interesting to me, as the Erskine gun I have is not numbered. Also, the gun I have has provisional proofs only and no bore stamp. Did Erskine only number guns submitted to the proof house? How did he get away with selling a gun only partly proofed?

Also of interest in your list is William James Harvey of Exeter, in business between 1855 and 1870. In 1860 he patented a sliding-barrel action, which appears to have been made in two versions, one with an underlever rotating backwards, the other forwards. Without examining Harvey's sliding-barrel actions, it is impossible to be sure, but looking at photographs of these, they seem identical to the actions of the Bastin Brothers (lever rotating backwards) and Lambert Ghaye (lever rotating forwards), all of Liège. James Purdey built pinfires on the Harvey patent, and these look identical to the Bastin design. The sliding-barrel actions marketed by Henry Egg were of the Ghaye design. It may be that Harvey made slight modifications or copied the Belgian patent, which was not protected in Britain. The Bastin design was one of the first seen by sportsmen in Britain, taking part in the Field trial of 1858, on a gun carrying the Auguste Francotte name. It would have been interesting to see any other types of pinfire guns Harvey was making, as the catalogue listing you give does not denote an unusual action.

Here is the Bastin Brothers action:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The Smith and Alden name clears up a matter. I had Thomas Smith, gun and barrel maker at 13 Little Compton Street, London, in my list. His earlier partner, Robert Alden, was not, as he died in 1836. I was not aware that Smith had continued the Alden & Smith name (also appearing as Smith & Alden), so this helps.

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Here we go again......these are from fairly recent catalogs (only 20+ years old!)
12b pinfire by E Adkins 30" damascus barrels. NVN. Jones U/Lever. Evans & Partridge 18/4/2000
12b pinfire by J. & W. Tolley. Serial No. 1326. Jones U/Lever opener, Cross bolted forend. 30" Damascus barrels. Evans & Partridge 11/4/1995
20b pinfire by D Egg. NVN. Jones U/Lever opener. 29" Damascus barrels. Cross bolted forend. Evans & Partridge 27/3/2001
10b pinfire by T>R>T> Gooch (Hertford). NVN. Jones U/Lever. 30" Browned Damascus barrels.

12b pinfire / centre fire by Westley Richards, New Bond St. London. S/N 10.750. Black Powder Proof. A very rare dual system! Made to fire both pinfire and centrefire cartridges. Twist barrels, with dolls head rib extension. wood bar locks, with dolphin hammers. Nicely engraved with panes of foliage. The breech faces incorporating floating strikers which bear against the breast of the hammers. Patent top lever, and walnut straight grip stock. Barrels 30". Weller & Dufty 11th July 1972. (I had a rare dual ignition system, A Masu Bros. London. It was a genuine 14b. Sadly, stolen from me. I will list it separately on another occasion).

An Extremely rare and high quality fullstocked military style .577 calibre pinfire rifle by Alexander Henry Serial No. 1292 The barrel retained by a front band and single cross bolt. Heavy octagonal barrel with 8 groove Henry rifling, the underside marked " Pope & Henry's Patent No4" Probably Henry M. Pope,famous American rifle maker, of Jersey City! The top flat marked "ALEXR. HENRY 12 SOUTH ST. ANDREW ST. EDINGBURGH. PATENT NO. 763". Hooded bead foresight,and tangent rearsight. the barrel band with bayonet bar and sling eye. Rearward sliding breech block with inset lift up release catch. the top of the breech block border engraved and marked "PATENT". bolted, detented lock signed "ALEX. HENRY" and border engraved, the hammer nose with small spigot which locks into a recess in the breech block at the moment of discharge. Walnut stock with steel furniture, chequered wrist & forend, and horn forend tip. Complete with steel cleaning rod , very similar to the Enfield ramrod, but with brass head. Barrel 28". In fine condition. Weller and Dufty 11/7/1972. Lot No. 490.

Steve, these may start to come thick and fast this week, as I have a bit of spare time. Just discard any that is of no use. Regards Dave.

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This is great stuff. But, here is a suggestion. Not all pin-fires are significant to this history. Why not have David correspond via PM on with Steve on his catalogue findings...then the two could decide which guns are worth taking note of and discussing? Otherwise, the line will get overwhelmed with journey-man guns that might not mean much historically.

This is just a suggestion. David has become a great researcher....but raw data might better be selective to be pertinent. Gene

Last edited by Argo44; 06/08/21 10:40 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Argo, I feel differently about Dave's posts. Maybe some will not help Steve's book, but even those are of interest to many others of us. I shoot pinfires in the fall and enjoy any information I can get. I think Dave should keep on posting anything he finds as many out there will enjoy them and maybe get some information on a gun that he owns.

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I agree ,the more information that is in the public view is for the better! Too much knowledge of the sporting past has gone with the men who had it......

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When I first started researching the pinfire game gun, the few available mentions and illustrations in print gave me the erroneous impression that only a select handful of makers had made them. In a book that might illustrate but one pinfire, not surprisingly, it would be an exquisitely preserved example from a top maker that would be chosen.

Ivanhoe’s research might offer raw data, but it is data nevertheless, and the more names that can be acknowledged as makers of pinfire guns, the better. In his latest post, he lists a 20-bore pinfire marked Durs Egg. An unusual size for a British pinfire, to be sure, but I hadn’t realized guns under his name were sold as late as 1865 (and possibly 1874), as Durs Egg died in 1831. His nephew’s son, Henry, is the usual Egg I associate with pinfires. I know a little bit more today than I did yesterday!

If anyone knows of examples of pinfire game guns, a mention in this thread is good; pictures even better. I have a wholly selfish reason to see more pinfire maker's names listed here, as anyone looking up the names on the Internet is more likely to end up reading this thread.

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I bow to the cognoscenti. Looking back it was a silly suggestion. Data is what we need and the more the better.


Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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Thanks for all your comments, guys. My love affair with the pinfire is as much about the makers, as the guns themselves. I resent the fact that many of the smaller salerooms did not do the research, and failed to give more details of the maker, and the gun. Digging back through my vast array of catalogues means I am reading the descriptions of guns I saw, and often handled, up to 45 years ago. Sometimes I made note in the catalog margins, but often did not, as under pressure to view a lot of other stuff for my colleagues shop. It,s a trip down memory lane (my memory does need refreshing these days), my hope is that I can complete it. I apologise for not posting details of all the Continental pinfires that are catalogued, many of them of fine quality, I just do not have the time. These old catalogs, especially those from Weller & Dufty, are absolutely packed with information of all kinds. Indeed, at the top of the frontpage of their catalogs, it stated," Not just a catalogue, But a reference book"! Should anyone want one, from any particular decade, I would be happy to post one on. At the end of our research on pinfires (and Reillys!) I hope to sell this catatlog collection as one lot. Going on current Ebay prices, they should be collectively worth £3 - £4,000. The first to offer me £350 takes them all.

However, That is a long way off, my research for you guys is only just starting.

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