doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What is this tool ?

Sometime ago, this item came in a box with some pinfire reloading items. It is solid brass, and the "shank" is .375" in diameter and flares at the end to .400" diameter. Notice the end is hollowed a bit. What do you think the tool is and was it made for a certain type of gun ?

I BELIEVE IT IS FOR A MUZZLELOADING BENCHGUN WITH CONICAL BULLETS THAT HAD A FALSE MUZZLE

It look somewhat like the ones you use for stuffing the wad over the shot but smaller.

I agree with Leighton. I think it''s a short starter for conicals in muzzleloaders.

I think it's a wad seater for the 410 shotshell.
A 'Tamper' they are usually called and they are generally paired with a brass 'Filler Tube' which the hull being loaded is placed inside while
all the components are put in one by one and pushed down firmly with the Tamper/Wad Seater.

Could be a 'Starter' for a M/Loader.
It wouldn't be one for use w/a False Muzzle with that flare machined on it.

If it is a Starter, the end shape could certainly be for a round ball just as much as for a bullet shape projectile.
At it's length, it'd be a Long Start. If using one, the shooter would generally need a 'Short Start' as well. Usually both are combined into one tool for the field to make things handy.

Interesting things you find in boxes of 'stuff'!

Kutter, while it certainly could be used to seat .410 wads, if that were the intended purpose of it why would it have a hollowed out end? That is the feature that makes me think it was a m/l rifle (or pistol) starter.

I made short starters when I competed in m/l roundball competition in the NMLRA. Many had a very short stub that seated the ball just below the muzzle, and also had about a four inch stub, at right angle to the shortie, that pushed it on in. We called the tool a short starter, even though it had two seating stubs. Then, the loading rod, with a muzzle protector, would be used to seat the ball firmly on the powder.

With my serious bench rest and cross-sticks guns I used a ball and patch combination that was so tight I had to "hammer" the ball into the barrel with a mallet on the short starter, and the long starter as you call it. I have a 14 lb. cross-sticks gun, .45 caliber, that will shoot sub-inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards. My best is a 5/8", 5 shot, at 100. Although they are called round ball rifles, when you seat as tight a fitting ball/patch combination as I used in that rifle the ball is actually swaged into a slightly elongated shape. The weave from the patch will be easily seen in the soft lead ball. Very tight.

Daryl, add a photo of the top of the tool, head on pic. If the hole runs through it then it is not a short starter for a false muzzle. I personally don’t think it is but let’s see the top. If it were a starter I think it would be a solid rod closely fitting the bore diameter of the false muzzle. And it certainly wouldn’t have the bell bottom yours does.

Here’s is a link to what a false muzzle and its starter looks like. Not even in the ballpark with your tool.

http://www.hallowellco.com/false_muzzle_and_bullet_starter.htm

Joe, I’m away from the item, but it is solid brass with no hole coming the length and out the top. The top does show slight evidence of being tapped on, but not excessively.

Looks to me like a finial for an ugly lamp. What indication is there that it is gun related at all?...Geo

More pictures of each end.

Daryl, I haven’t the slightest idea what it was designed for. It does look like it would be a great short starter for a round ball muzzleloader. I can see no possible use for a pin fire.

The indentations on the "head" leads one to believe it was tapped with a mallet of some sort to seat whatever it was seating. I believe it was a ball/conical. I can see no reason the apply a mallet to a tool used to seat wads in a shot shell.

Short starter.

I'm just a new user, old lurker, but it does look like a ball starter. The dents suggest that it was also useful as a brass hammer of sorts. Possibly to drive out the wedge used to hold the barrel on.

The dents are most likely from a mallet being used on it to seat a tight fitting ball in the muzzle.

Just curious Stanton, are you a muzzle loader?

Yes, Ken. Competed in NMLRA competition rifle (round ball) matches for a long time, somewhat successfully. Won several state championships, and shot a 50/50 at Friendship. (Everybody wants one of those easy "50" Friendship patches )

Also hunted deer with a couple of my roundball rifles until I lost interest in deer hunting, and shot doves and wild quail with muzzleloading double shotguns.

All that is mostly in my past, though I do pull a front stuffer out every now and then and use it.

Nice

Friendship Spring match is going on this week. Heading over there today if the weather is not too hot to look around and buy a bit of black powder for dove and duck season. End next weekend. Suspect it will be packed after most of a year off for too many. 50/50 is one fine achievement. Right up there with 15/15 dove shooting, day two, with 15 shells.

maybe this thread is about the same thing? https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=596181#Post596181

Daryl, I think that it is likely a rammer detached from one of the Cartridge reloading machines, illustrated in David Bakers book, British Handloading Cartridge Tools
Best regards
Roy

Found this:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15730.0

The tool in question looks a lot like rammer part of the seating tool in the link.
The hollowed tip of the tool in the link looks rather chewed up, but you never know what stuff like this has been used for outside of it's orig intent.

Roy and Kutter and others, I think you are on the right track. I just dug out this seating tool [pictured along side the item in question] . It comes with one of those heavy hexagonal barrel muzzle loading target rifles. Obviously made for that rifle which is a concoction of a Golcher lock and a barrel that appears to have been on another gun.

Sanford I think they used short starters for round ball guns too....just saying