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#598636 06/23/21 06:51 PM
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PALUNC Offline OP
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OK I'm a You Tube junkie and have my channels I like to watch. I watch a lot of the UK outdoor channels and the one I watched a video yesterday was " The Shooting Show". Now they have some great shooting videos and in particular there is this guy who is regularly on there and he does a lot of high pheasant and some pigeon shooting videos. Like me he loves a "P" gum. In fact he has a matched pair of MX12's he regularly shoots with. Well the other day I was watching him doing some pigeon shooting and he had just received a new matched pair of MX12's that he had ordered with help from Mario Perazzi himself.
He talked about the lead shot ban over in the UK and the use of steel shot. He had both new guns choked in at 40 thousand in both barrels. He said Mario said he could shoot anything he wanted through those guns.
I thought you could not use tight chokes with steel shot, am I crazy?
Oh and he had them shocked with a straight grain saying that it would help on muzzle flip and make the stock strong. Any thoughts on that?


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would like to see him pattern those 40 choked barrels with say 4 or 2 or better yet bb steel.....

Last edited by gunut; 06/23/21 07:19 PM.

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I recently interviewed Tom Roster on nontoxic shot for a couple articles in Pointing Dog Journal/Retriever Journal. Here's Tom's comment on steel shot in tight chokes:


"It is true that the more open the choke, the less likely there will be integral choke or choke tube expansion damage from hard shot types passing through them. But the fact is, if an integral choke or choke tube is made of proper steel with proper wall thickness--such as, for example, Beretta, Browning, and Remington factory chokes and many after-market choke tubes--hard shot types can successfully pass through choke constrictions tighter than modified without any choke expansion."

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Palunc, in the UK,if the gun has been proofed for superior steel and carries the Fleur de lis stamp, it is safe to use any choke subject to normal proof load. Regards


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Mr. Martin is correct regarding standard steel loads; limited to 400 m/sec or about 1,312 fps

This document (which may be old) specifies choke < .5mm = .020" and max. velocity < 430m/sec = about 1400 fps for High Performance Steel proof, for shot 4mm or >
https://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/ciptexts/decision-xxxii-45-0-en.pdf

This is from 2017
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=465245

This is dated 2020
https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1094678/GTA_factsheet_shootingnonlead_ver102.pdf
"‘Standard steel’ cartridges have been designed by manufacturers in association with proof authorities1that can be fired through any nitro-proved gun.They must have a cup wad to protect the barrel; they have a maximum shot size of 4; and they have to conform to the normal pressure limits of nitro proved guns.
Trials in 1991 using standard steel cartridges with light loads (24 grams) demonstrated that even light walled game guns of contemporary manufacture with 3/4 chokes showed no damage after firing 1000 rounds. Standard steel loads can be fired safely through light walled guns but there is a risk that in some circumstances a slight bulging at the choke neck can occur. The likelihood of such bulging is increased by heavy loads, large diameter shot and steep, tight chokes."
"High-performance steel cartridges have limits on what should be used. Shot sizes exceeding 4mm (BB and larger) should only be fired through a choke less than 0.5mm (half choke)."

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They are trying to come out with an entire new group of steel loads which will be capable of use in even older 2 1/2” guns with fiber based wads. Velocity will limit the effective range but with some of the slow burning powders they are getting decent velocities. Either they develop these type loads or an entire group of guns become wall hangers. New guns are being built to use modern steel shells but until now old guns were regulated to lead or Bismuth shells. Bismuth is fairly expensive so they are looking for a cheaper alternative at reasonable pressures.

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Eley have brought out a steel game cartridge suitable for 2 1/2" chambers but still caution against using in choke tighter than half and not in the softer Damascus type barrels. The wads used are bio-degradable. They look and act like plastic but are made of plant starch. They go to a snotty mush in water and safely disappear into the ground. Bio-Ammo is another maker of degradable steel cartridges as is Jocker. The move is not just away from lead but also from plastic waste in the environment. Most game shooting here is done with felt wads and some clay shoots don't allow plastic wads either. One clay ground I have been going to since the 1970's have never allowed plastic wads in all that time. It seems that quite a lot of research is underway here by the ammunition manufacturers to find an inexpensive round that can be safely used in older English guns. Lagopus…..

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The opening post questions steel shot through tight choke. Modern high performance steel proofed guns, carrying the Fleur de lis mark, can use steel in any choke. The question about steel in older guns , without steel proof, is an entirely separate issue. Yes, lots of work being done and much more required. The shooting organisations in the UK have again done very little to protect the interests of gameshots. Regards

Last edited by Mr W martin; 06/24/21 11:24 AM. Reason: Sp

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True on the latter point. BASC were saying 'No evidence, No change' but then changed this. I tackled someone from BASC on this point and was told it is because birds that ingest lead shot die unseen and are later consumed by scavengers. I then asked for the evidence for that but they could show none.

I have a Harrington & Richardson single 10 bore that is heavily choked and the barrels at the muzzle are very thick. Perhaps tome to conduct some experimentation! Most it could do is open the choke up a bit. Lagopus.….

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A H&R single hot 10 bore-- "barrels at the muzzle???" wouldn't a single shot shotgun be "The barrel at the muzzle?' Just wonderin'?? RWTF


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