December
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 67 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,376
Posts511,112
Members14,103
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 25
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 25
The honest answer is do what you can afford.

Hint, Miroku has changed their “High pheasant” model to :
Changeable chokes
And,
Thick rubber recoil pad.

I get the inference they are adapting that model to not bulge from heavy steel loads. And hopefully not split as many well figured stocks.
It should be obvious in the dynamics of the new model.

It is a model that had incredible world wide appeal, and now is just another Browning multi choke gun.

I have broken many flush mount removeable chokes shooting steel 4’s and larger at ducks. Many, as in 6-8 screw in’s imp-cyl and tighter. They crack, and get hard to turn out.
Extended chokes with thicker walls and different alloys, never.

Bulged a few barrels along the way as well.

I am not going to feed larger steel through a shotgun I value.

There ARE fixed choke modern shotguns that can handle big steel pellets for high birds. Longthorne comes to mind. And it seems Perazzi as well.

But I think the days of high birds with the old “best” guns are soon done.

And it’s mostly driven by public outcry over lead in the food supply.

Last edited by ClapperZapper; 06/26/21 12:38 PM.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,937
Likes: 18
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,937
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
But I think the days of high birds with the old “best” guns are soon done.

Not because of non-toxic shot mandates. There are other non-toxic shot alternatives that such guns can handle, present and future, some with better ballistic performance than lead. Those who can afford that type of shooting can well afford the increased ammunition cost.

Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
And it’s mostly driven by public outcry over lead in the food supply.

The 'outcry' is from a very small minority, hardly 'public'. The question is highly debatable and science is lacking as to an actual lead risk.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 75
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 75
try organizations, plays better in Peoria that your "spelling" of that word, RWTF


When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 25
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 25
When there is no market for the game, the public will finish off shooting for sport.
There is no market left for lead shot game.
Shoots are already paying disposition fees.

Science and reason left that debate sometime ago.

Not saying I agree with any of it.
Just reporting the dire nature of the discussion.

Tungsten based pellets scour.
Bismuth/tin is less dense than lead. Doesn’t seem to have quite the smack as lead at the same ranges. (Anecdotally)

And of course, current availability of product worldwide makes everything more complicated.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,576
Likes: 134
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,576
Likes: 134
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Bismuth/tin is less dense than lead. Doesn’t seem to have quite the smack as lead at the same ranges. (Anecdotally)

Sure it's less than lead. Most non-toxics are. But it's still darn good. And, I remember using lead for ducks very well. Bismuth is a helluva lot better than steel, even the best steel loads, IMO.

Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Shoots are already paying disposition fees.

You, and maybe somewhat less than 1% of the rest of American shooting sportsmen, are concerned with this. It does not apply to most of us Americans who hunt alone, or with a bud, on public or private land for a few game birds. No relevance at all. But, it sure seems hard for you not to make subtle mention of your forays to England or Scotland when you post. Just how many American shoots are paying "disposition fees", CZ?


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 25
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 25
The OP was about his watching UK shooting shows on YouTube, his noticing Gerwyn Jones mentioning very tight chokes for “High birds” while shooting steel shot through a new pair of Perazzi’s.
High birds being a specialized subset of UK driven shooting.

The program wasn’t about shooting in the US.

At an 8-1 ratio, Jones would be running 150-250, heavy, large steel shot, cartridges through the Perazzi’s chokes multiple days a season.
On a good Pigeon day, 400. Though the shots would be closer, so smaller pellets typically used.

Probably not wise with the family Purdey’s.



Many of the readers here will probably have watched the Holland Holland videos, (or read the articles in Shooting Sportsman) were they explained that they can leave extra material anywhere they wish in their new barrels, (and with greater concentricity) using their new barrel boring technology, but also that they can’t do anything about their old guns other than re-barrel them.

Leaving additional material in the barrels to accommodate changeable chokes changes handling dynamics.
Miroku abandoning their fixed choke barrels on their break through model in the face of steel shot requirements is a monumental concession.

I think the OP’s surprise? at the choke constriction mentioned was warranted.

Jones will be giving up something somewhere.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 75
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 75
Sir, my friend Stan Hillis, Not Hollis. I call him Stan, you, being a Brit, no doubt prefer the more former Stanton. Whatever floats your boat. RWTF. In my lexicon, getting another man's name with both correct spelling and also in terms of actual address is the hallmark of good breeding, showing that man that you, indeed, respect him, by taking the time to both spell it properly, as well as correct pronunciation. RWTF


When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 75
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,636
Likes: 75
Hey Stan. I've been using steel shot in my 3 12 gauge M12's for 30 plus years- no damage to the muzzle area of each of these fine repeaters, none whatsoever. All are full choke, which prefer, as I enjoy "pillow-casing" decoying mallards and geese at 25 yards and closing, and a full choke will do that, assuming the proper lead and follow-through on the part of the gunner. RWTF


When The Man In Black Comes Around- Rev: 6-8
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,916
Likes: 48
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,916
Likes: 48
Truth is that if I could afford to shoot several driven shoots a year the cost of the better Bismuth ammo becomes unimportant. You pay several hundred pounds and you are not going to cry about 30-40 more pounds for a box of ammo when you might use two or three on a great day. Steel might be cheaper but premium steel is not that much cheaper and the cheap stuff is almost like what we use to use 30 years ago. Very range limited for many.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 55
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 55
Originally Posted by Run With The Fox
Hey Stan. I've been using steel shot in my 3 12 gauge M12's for 30 plus years- no damage to the muzzle area of each of these fine repeaters, none whatsoever. All are full choke, which prefer, as I enjoy "pillow-casing" decoying mallards and geese at 25 yards and closing, and a full choke will do that, assuming the proper lead and follow-through on the part of the gunner. RWTF

That’s really what you “enjoy”, shooting ducks with a full choke at 25 yards and closing, “pillow casing” them as you say? That’s what you enjoy is it? Absolutely destroying and ruining a game bird for your enjoyment.
You really are a straight up rambling dip s.h.I.t.
I see clowns like you in the marsh all the time, shoot a duck with a ultra tight choke at 20 yards and when the bird explodes, and made completely inedible, these same buffoons laugh and high five.
Wish you would take another long hiatus from the board, man. Your ramblings are getting to be a bit much.

1 member likes this: HomelessjOe
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.048s Queries: 36 (0.022s) Memory: 0.8528 MB (Peak: 1.8990 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-12-06 09:01:44 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS