March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
5 members (Roundsworth, GSPWillie, LeFusil, 2 invisible), 307 guests, and 9 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts543,999
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Merci. Voila notre dictionnaire de Français-Anglais, English-French terminologie pour les armes de chasse et de tir sportif que nous avons cree il y a plusieurs année.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=480959

Last edited by Argo44; 07/15/21 08:25 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 133
Likes: 25
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 133
Likes: 25
Originally Posted by ellenbr
Not sure where to put this, but OK you Stéphanoise Aficionados, a fella over @ Shotgunworld needs an ID:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


I can move the inquiry if need be.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Salut,

Il y a quelques jours, j'ai fait une découverte sur ce type d'arme.
En 1923, la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne crée sa filiale Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne. Celle-ci a été créée pour la vente d'armes en gros aux armuriers. Les fusils vendus n'auront aucun marquage de la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne.
D'après la photo des plats de canons, l'arme aurait été fabriquée entre 1926 (épreuve Manufrance) et 1931 (à partir de cette année, ce fusil sera estampillé "Costo" sous la bascule).
Le fusil 250, Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne, est un modèle 20 Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne (période 1924/1931) ou bien un modèle 202 (période 1931/1939).
J'espère que vous parviendrez à comprendre ce que j'écris. smile

Last edited by fab500; 08/22/21 06:54 AM.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 133
Likes: 25
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 133
Likes: 25
[Linked Image from i.servimg.com]
[Linked Image from i.servimg.com]

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Merci pour ton information Fab, et comme d'habitude il est nouveau, complet and très interessant.

Here's a simple (non-academic) translation:

Salut,

Il y a quelques jours, j'ai fait une découverte sur ce type d'arme.
Several days ago I discovered this type of arm:

En 1923, la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne crée sa filiale Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne. Celle-ci a été créée pour la vente d'armes en gros aux armuriers. Les fusils vendus n'auront aucun marquage de la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne.
In 1923 la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne created a subsidiary "Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne." This was created to sell arms wholesale to gun makers/gun marketers. The long-arms sold would have no markings from la Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne.

D'après la photo des plats de canons, l'arme aurait été fabriquée entre 1926 (épreuve Manufrance) et 1931 (à partir de cette année, ce fusil sera estampillé "Costo" sous la bascule).
Le fusil 250, Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne, est un modèle 20 Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne (période 1924/1931) ou bien un modèle 202 (période 1931/1939).

From the photo of the barrel flats, the long-arm would have been made between 1926 (proved Manufrance) and 1931 (from this year the long-arm would be stamped "Costo" on the action). The arm "250" of "Manufacture Modèle d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne," is a model 20 Manufacture d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne from the périod 1924/1931), or a model 202 (1931-1939)

J'espère que vous parviendrez à comprendre ce que j'écris.
I hope that you can understand what I've written.

Nous avons très bien compris Fab et merci comme d'habitude.

Last edited by Argo44; 08/22/21 10:32 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
I thought I might note this here for our small band of Manufrance aficionados.

Poked my head into a small gun shop about 45 min from my home last week. Used inventory way down. Not much in the way of SxS. A beat Ithaca. An even worse German cape gun. And what’s that over there? A pristine, late 1920’s I think, Manufrance Ideal double rifle in 450 NE! Wood was a little rough from being uncared for for 60 years but the metal appeared perfect.

I doubt I will be headed to Africa any time soon so to buy it seemed a bit extravagant. But I was glad to handle it. Never thought I would see one in NA.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Nice CB. Well I am in Africa right now...but not a place to use that gun...unless camels are game. What was the price out of curiosity?

Last edited by Argo44; 08/22/21 07:37 AM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Wrong part of Africa Gene! laugh

Asking was $8000 Canadian. currently that’s $6200 USD and I suspect that price could be chiseled down significantly.

Last edited by canvasback; 08/22/21 07:40 AM.

The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 316
Likes: 70
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 316
Likes: 70
would be a treat to see and handle....what was the weight of the gun? every ideal i've ever seen has been a light weight gun....can't wrap my head around something like that being possible for a big bore double rifle...

best regards,
tom


"it's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards."
lewis carroll, Alice in Wonderland
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Originally Posted by graybeardtmm3
would be a treat to see and handle....what was the weight of the gun? every ideal i've ever seen has been a light weight gun....can't wrap my head around something like that being possible for a big bore double rifle...

best regards,
tom

Of course it was an impromptu visit so I had neither a scale nor a tape measure. My 12 gauge 6R EE weights in at 6 pounds 13 oz with 29” barrels. And the stock is 14 1/4”.

The double rifle had an LOP of at least 14” and barrels of at least 27 1/2”. They were longer than I would have guessed. And I’m not sure but I doubt the overall weight of the rifle was more than two pounds heavier than mine. So I’m guessing in the 9 pound plus range. No extra reinforcement of the action to handle the loads. The Ideal action is incredibly strong in its normal form. The only extra were two straps running back from the action on either side providing a little extra support for the top and bottom tangs.

I would say it handled nicely but it’s only the second 450 NE SxS I’ve picked up so not much to compare it.

Last edited by canvasback; 08/22/21 05:45 PM.

The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Argo44 Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 309
Anything like these?

https://www.lauritz.com/en/auction/french-ideal-sporting-gun-calibre-12/i3425099/

This from another site:

According to Ideal book (p. 14) the following were standard calibers offered:
1887 (start date of Ideals) until 1897: "500 Express" (I strongly believe this is 500bpe or nitro for black, author gives the following ballistics: 570meters per second, charge with 9 grams of large black powder)
1897 to 1908: "Caliber 50" (maybe 500NE?)
1909: 450NE, "375 English" (2 1/2"), and 303 British (as is shown in the catalogue scans above)
1910: added 405 WCF
1911: 450NE dropped and 8mm Lebel added
1914: outbreak of WWI and double rifle Ideal manufacture stopped
1925: Recommence of manufacture of double rifle Ideals, in 8mm Lebel, 450 NE.
1931: reintroduction of 405WCF
1937: 8mm Lebel replaced by "375 magnum" (I assume the flanged H&H).
1939: outbreak of WWII double rifle manufacturing stopped for the last time.

There were also custom orders for various calibers like: 8mm Lebel, 11mm Gras (the French service cartridge before the 8mm Lebel in the 1870s-80s), 6.5 Daudeteau, 11mm Werndl, 7.92 German, 6.5 Mannicher-Carcano, and 303 British.

https://www.pmulcahy.com/single-shot-double_sporting_rifles/french_ss-d_spr.htm

1910 Catalog:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 08/22/21 06:33 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
Page 5 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.073s Queries: 35 (0.051s) Memory: 0.8592 MB (Peak: 1.8987 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 15:31:05 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS