March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
5 members (DaveB, bsteele, Jeremy Pearce, Ian Forrester, SKB), 791 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,009
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#603363 09/24/21 10:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
Some of us have had or know of guns we consider as unsafe to shoot...care to tell us about one?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603372 09/24/21 12:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
From my experience they are generally owned by old Farmers. The guns are Belgian hammer guns that are Black Powder Proof; never, ever cleaned, loose on the action because they fire the heaviest loads they can find, the top lever held in place by an elastic band, invariably dented and only a combination of luck and the gods that protect old farmers have so far failed to blow them to pieces. I think that fits a number I have seen over the years. Lagopus.....

ed good #603373 09/24/21 01:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 44
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 44
Originally Posted by ed good
Some of us have had or know of guns we consider as unsafe to shoot...care to tell us about one?

Any one that is pointed at you.


___________________________
Smokin’, drinkin’, tryin’ to free my mind.
(tobacco, coffee, reading the NYT)
((prolly golfin’ a bit later))

ed good #603376 09/24/21 03:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857
Likes: 384
mc Offline
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857
Likes: 384
Some of the guns sold by a guy in nh might qualify.and lonesome roads gets the prize for best answer

ed good #603380 09/24/21 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
cum on guys...tell us about one...

here is the most recent one i have seen...a 12 gauge boxlock churchill that had been sleeved...barrel walls in front of chambers were only .060...way too thin for me...and no economical way to fix it...

Last edited by ed good; 09/24/21 04:51 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603385 09/24/21 05:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
I have a damascus 12 gauge gun with .080 in front of the chambers. I am comfortable shooting low pressure 1 ounce loads thru it. Minimum wall thickness everywhere else is .024 What works for me won't necessarily work for someone else. I also once owned a Beretta Vitoria 16 gauge made in 1949 that had original .017 wall thickness 7 inches from the muzzle. Never had a problem with factory ammo. Sold the gun because it didn't really fit me well and disclosed the thin walls to the new buyer.


"As for me and my house we will shoot Damascus!"
ed good #603386 09/24/21 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
12bore, shooting smokeless in a damascus gun is pushing it...doing so in such light barrels, is even more risky...

.017 seven inches down in a 16 is risky and could easily result in a bulge or an eruption if even a slight blockage occurs...

you were lucky shooting both guns...

other opinions?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
lagopus #603389 09/24/21 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Originally Posted by lagopus
From my experience they are generally owned by old Farmers. The guns are Belgian hammer guns that are Black Powder Proof; never, ever cleaned, loose on the action because they fire the heaviest loads they can find, the top lever held in place by an elastic band, invariably dented and only a combination of luck and the gods that protect old farmers have so far failed to blow them to pieces. I think that fits a number I have seen over the years. Lagopus.....

Sounds like you don't have a lot of confidence in "old Farmers" sense about guns. You say you believe "old Farmers" never, ever cleaned old Belgian hammer guns. You believe they use the "heaviest loads they can find". You name "old Farmers" as the ones who use elastic bands to hold top levers in place. Why farmers, and old ones, in particular?


May God bless America and those who defend her.
ed good #603390 09/24/21 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Originally Posted by ed good
12bore, shooting smokeless in a damascus gun is pushing it...doing so in such light barrels, is even more risky...

.017 seven inches down in a 16 is risky and could easily result in a bulge or an eruption if even a slight blockage occurs...

you were lucky shooting both guns...

other opinions?

Yeah, here's mine. You're full of it. It didn't result in "an eruption", obviously. Why didn't it, ed, if it was unsafe?


May God bless America and those who defend her.
ed good #603392 09/24/21 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
well stan, this is about opinion...you may have different opinions...thats ok...but do try to behave in a gentlemanly fashion while participating in this thread on this fine forum...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603393 09/24/21 09:12 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
In my 67 odd years of shotgunning, if the original question is about a certain make and model of shotgun, going way back in time, both happen to be of WRA mfg. first, the Model 1893 pumpgun- next the M11 semi-autoloader-- known in some areas as the "Widow maker"--Thomas Crossley Johnson did a masterful job on the M12 (and M1912)-- but he sure fubared WRA;s attempt to bring out a reliable semi-auto to compete with the Browning Auto-5. Just my 2 cents worth.. Now, as to the acerbic remarks made here about "old Farmers"--I can see 2 sides to that. It is true that non-landowners who don't wrest a living from the land, fighting Nature and the "middlemen", whether they are involved in dairy, beef, swine, poultry or cash cropping--do not seem to understand the "farm way"-- they see equipment stored outdoors, gravelled 2 track roads, barns with roofing torn loose from severe weather, and wonder-- what they fail to grasp is the fact that farming ain't a 9 to 5 5 day a week career-- even hobby farms take long hours of work to pay off-the other side is that Farmers know better than any other group I am aware of how to be good neighbors- in order to survive, that is a flat out fact of life.Farmers are the best folks the Good Lord put on the face of the earth, and I am lucky to have so many of them as trusted friends. RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
ed good #603395 09/24/21 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Okay ed, in a gentlemanly fashion, answer the question ................


May God bless America and those who defend her.
ed good #603397 09/24/21 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
stan, recently, an avid shooter i know of had a scary experience...seems like he occasionally shot skeet with a 12 gauge parker hammer gun with damascus barrels, using light smokeless loads...been doing so for quite awhile...well this summer, he was shooting as usual, when one of the barrels erupted, with a few inches of barrel being blown out...fortunately, no one was hurt...one never knows when one of these old guns is going to let go...if one must shoot guns with twist steel barrels, then do so only occasionally...and then only use shells loaded with powder the gun was designed for...ie: black powder...

and as for shooting .017 or similar thin barrel walls...a barrel blockage of any kind or a severe barrel dent will cause pressures to increase rapidly...in that situation, the thinner the barrel walls, the more likely there will be a bulge or eruption...i would think...

minimum barrel wall thickness of .030 is my standard for safety...others say .025 is ok...shooting anything below .025 is to risky for me...

Last edited by ed good; 09/24/21 09:46 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603399 09/24/21 09:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
foxie,your post above is your best in a long time...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603400 09/24/21 09:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Originally Posted by ed good
stan, recently, an avid shooter i know of had a scary experience...seems like he occasionally shot skeet with a 12 gauge parker hammer gun with damascus barrels, using light smokeless loads...been doing so for quite awhile...well this summer, he was shooting as usual, when one of the barrels erupted, with a few inches of barrel being blown out...fortunately, no one was hurt...one never knows when one of these old guns is going to let go...if one must shoot guns with twist steel barrels, then do so only occasionally...and then only use shells loaded with powder the gun was designed for...ie: black powder...

and as for shooting .017 or similar thin barrel walls...a barrel blockage of any kind or a severe barrel dent will cause pressures to increase rapidly...in that situation, the thinner the barrel walls, the more likely there will be a bulge or eruption...i would think...

That reply is so full of assumptions I won't even begin to address them. And, it didn't even begin to answer the question I asked.


May God bless America and those who defend her.
ed good #603402 09/24/21 10:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
how bout dis, with regard to shotgun barrels and aircraft engines: "failure is not an acceptable option"...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603407 09/25/21 12:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 44
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 44
What we got heah, is…


Originally Posted by ed good
…failure...


____________________________
…to communicate.


ed good #603408 09/25/21 12:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 685
Likes: 45
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 685
Likes: 45
My old mzl conversion to 16ga cartridge using a mzl set of barrels soldered to a set of cut off 12ga barresl . I bought it in 1965 and proceeded to put hundreds of round of 16ga trap loads and 16ga magnum 5's for pheasants and ducks until I went in the service. Never knew Damascus was dangerous or there were such things a short chambers.


After the first shot the rest are just noise.
ed good #603410 09/25/21 07:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156
Likes: 17
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 156
Likes: 17
Damascus guns are more dangerous than vintage fluid steel ones? No more so if in good condition, still in proof, and you shoot loads they were proved for.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

A couple of these are ML's but the others all shoot low pressure smokeless. Last year's photo so some have moved on, others added.

JBLondon #603411 09/25/21 08:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,469
Likes: 386
Originally Posted by JBLondon
Damascus guns are more dangerous than vintage fluid steel ones? No more so if in good condition, still in proof, and you shoot loads they were proved for.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

A couple of these are ML's but the others all shoot low pressure smokeless. Last year's photo so some have moved on, others added.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
ed good #603412 09/25/21 08:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 307
"one never knows when one of these old guns is going to let go...if one must shoot guns with twist steel barrels, then do so only occasionally...and then only use shells loaded with powder the gun was designed for...ie: black powder..."

Regulars here ed understand that you repeat things over and over, "facts" that you must know to be false, simply to draw attention to yourself by prolonging the same threads you initiate...over and over.
And to get a rise from those of us who know what you say is BS.

The problem is that visitors to the site may not know better.
So I'll take the bait and provide you some gratification and entertainment with this...for like the 15th time

Remington Arms 1893 "Guaranteed For Nitro Powder"

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Parker Bros. 1893 Catalog
“Our guns are bored on the latest improved system for shooting Nitros, or Smokeless Powder, and all our guns are tested with some one of the most approved makes, and a tag accompanies each gun, giving the results of such a (pattern) test.”


Listing in the 1902 Sears catalog "Bored For Nitro or Black Powder"

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

ed good #603417 09/25/21 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
gee guys, i know its hard to focus, but please do try to stay on topic...and remember this is about opinion...

any other specific examples of guns you consider as unsafe?

Last edited by ed good; 09/25/21 10:43 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603420 09/25/21 11:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Stanton Hills, maybe it's just British farmers but that is from long experience. I'm sure some U.K. members may agree. The attitude seems to be one of 'well it hasn't blown up so far'. I've seen some real shockers in use. Rusty things propped up in cow shed windows, tucked round the back of tractor seats and even bits of welded patches on the barrels covering holes. Maybe it will be less so as a new generation takes over and guns here being as cheap as they are at the moment. Lagopus.....

1 member likes this: Imperdix
ed good #603421 09/25/21 12:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
lag, re your comment about welded patches on barrels...have seen more than one old, well used twist steel barrelled gun with similar repairs, except, pin holes were filled with brass looking material and then draw filed to blend in...

it is my understanding that because black powder pressure is relatively low, pin holes will develop in an old worn out twist barrel, before it will erupt...your view, if any...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603431 09/25/21 01:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 130
Likes: 21
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 130
Likes: 21
Marlin has advised owners of their old hammer pump guns that they are unsafe to shoot. I don't recall exactly why, but it seems like there was something about firing out of battery.


Caution: Hunting and fishing stories told here. Protective footgear may be required.
lagopus #603438 09/25/21 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1128
Originally Posted by lagopus
Stanton Hills, maybe it's just British farmers but that is from long experience. I'm sure some U.K. members may agree. The attitude seems to be one of 'well it hasn't blown up so far'. I've seen some real shockers in use. Rusty things propped up in cow shed windows, tucked round the back of tractor seats and even bits of welded patches on the barrels covering holes. Maybe it will be less so as a new generation takes over and guns here being as cheap as they are at the moment. Lagopus.....


Thanks for the reply, lagopus. Having farmed, and lived in a highly agricultural region, all of my life here I couldn't make a case that farmers have any corner on carelessness or foolhardiness concerning guns. It seems to be fairly and equally distributed throughout our society. Fools are where you find them, and carelessness seemingly abounds in every station.

Best, Stanton Hillis


May God bless America and those who defend her.
lagopus #603440 09/25/21 03:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 269
Likes: 56
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 269
Likes: 56
Originally Posted by lagopus
Stanton Hills, maybe it's just British farmers but that is from long experience. I'm sure some U.K. members may agree. The attitude seems to be one of 'well it hasn't blown up so far'. I've seen some real shockers in use. Rusty things propped up in cow shed windows, tucked round the back of tractor seats and even bits of welded patches on the barrels covering holes. Maybe it will be less so as a new generation takes over and guns here being as cheap as they are at the moment. Lagopus.....

Got to agree ,here in UK `farmers gun` is a well recognised term which immediately paints a mental picture that you describe....seen many such used over the years,most of which were proudly described as `good killers` or `hard hitters` . To the credit of their makers ,i`ve never heard of one that `let go`!!! In fact I`ve not seen any gun that burst or badly bulged other than due to an obstructed bore in my 50 yrs afield.

1 member likes this: Ted Schefelbein
Imperdix #603446 09/25/21 05:03 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 114
Seems to me I once read an article by a Brit- denegrating American boxlock guns- in particular he remarked that Parkers were stout guns, without grace or balance, and suitable for yeomen and farmers usage-- RWTF.


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
ed good #603450 09/25/21 07:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 459
Likes: 53
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 459
Likes: 53
Ok, before I start. I am from a long line of farmers, grew up on the farm and have and still do dabble in it as an adult. I'll just say this. A lot of well abused crappy guns show up on the auctions when farmer's wives sell out the household! Now maybe the kids have kept the good stuff, but.

Case in point. We kept a Stevens Favorite inside the pump house along with a box of shells. It was there for convenient problem solving. Never wiped down, cleaned, lubed etc. It was a tool, nothing more. It is a shame as it was a relatively rare version as far as Stevens Favorites go. Probably worth a couple hundred now if it had received average care.

Chief

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 288
Likes: 53
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 288
Likes: 53
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
Originally Posted by ed good
stan, recently, an avid shooter i know of had a scary experience...seems like he occasionally shot skeet with a 12 gauge parker hammer gun with damascus barrels, using light smokeless loads...been doing so for quite awhile...well this summer, he was shooting as usual, when one of the barrels erupted, with a few inches of barrel being blown out...fortunately, no one was hurt...one never knows when one of these old guns is going to let go...if one must shoot guns with twist steel barrels, then do so only occasionally...and then only use shells loaded with powder the gun was designed for...ie: black powder...

and as for shooting .017 or similar thin barrel walls...a barrel blockage of any kind or a severe barrel dent will cause pressures to increase rapidly...in that situation, the thinner the barrel walls, the more likely there will be a bulge or eruption...i would think...

That reply is so full of assumptions I won't even begin to address them. And, it didn't even begin to answer the question I asked.


So there is no such thing as nitro proved Damascus barrels?

ed good #603471 09/26/21 09:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 96
Ed, I remember going to fox drives when all sorts of agricultural folks would turn up and I've seen the odd puff of smoke come out of the side of the barrels. I guess a lot of these old guns have now gone to rest. It used to be common practice at the big estate houses that the boss would use the 'Purdey' until it was getting past its best and a new one would be bought. The old gun would then go to the Gamekeeper and well used until he received the later one passed down and then it would go to the Gardener for use against pests. Stored in the potting shed until the woodworm and rust saw it off. I think the worst example I ever saw; which I wish I had photographed, was a Boss hammer ejector. I had been re-stocked with a piece of timber normally seen holding fence wire in place. The barrels pitted inside and out and dented. The rust made it difficult to see any of the engraving and details. I almost wept! There was nothing that was remotely salvageable. A Boss hammer ejector that I doubt anyone on this forum would have given 10 dollars for and only then as a curiosity. Lagopus.....

1 member likes this: Imperdix
ksauers1 #603484 09/26/21 11:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 93
Sidelock
**
Online Content
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,264
Likes: 93
Originally Posted by ksauers1
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
Originally Posted by ed good
stan, recently, an avid shooter i know of had a scary experience...seems like he occasionally shot skeet with a 12 gauge parker hammer gun with damascus barrels, using light smokeless loads...been doing so for quite awhile...well this summer, he was shooting as usual, when one of the barrels erupted, with a few inches of barrel being blown out...fortunately, no one was hurt...one never knows when one of these old guns is going to let go...if one must shoot guns with twist steel barrels, then do so only occasionally...and then only use shells loaded with powder the gun was designed for...ie: black powder...

and as for shooting .017 or similar thin barrel walls...a barrel blockage of any kind or a severe barrel dent will cause pressures to increase rapidly...in that situation, the thinner the barrel walls, the more likely there will be a bulge or eruption...i would think...

That reply is so full of assumptions I won't even begin to address them. And, it didn't even begin to answer the question I asked.


So there is no such thing as nitro proved Damascus barrels?

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Wall thickness...
(R) 3” from breech .105, 9” from breech .58, 13” from breech .43, 6” from muzzle .37
(L) 3” from breech .105, 9” from breech .57, 13” from breech .44, 6” from muzzle .36

Last edited by battle; 09/26/21 11:29 AM.
1 member likes this: 12boreman
battle #603498 09/26/21 01:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
I know it has been mentioned before on this forum that many of the American manufacturers at the turn of the 2oth century clearly stated that their damascus guns were just as safe with the new nitro powders as were the fluid steel built ones. Anything we do in life usually involves some sort of risk on a daily basis, from the food we eat, to the cars we drive, etc., etc. I will continue to shoot my damascus guns guns with low pressure smokeless loads because I feel they are safe for me and because I have done the research on my guns and deem them to be so. Your mileage may vary!


"As for me and my house we will shoot Damascus!"
ed good #603503 09/26/21 03:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
ed good Offline OP
Sidelock
*
OP Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,718
Likes: 94
nice to know about guns you consider as safe to shoot...but the subject of this thread is about specific guns you consider to be unsafe to shoot...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
ed good #603516 09/26/21 05:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
I would disagree. This thread is about "unsafe" guns...whatever that means to different people. What one person considers safe another might not.


"As for me and my house we will shoot Damascus!"
1 member likes this: battle
Carl46 #603526 09/26/21 07:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 349
Likes: 29
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 349
Likes: 29
Originally Posted by Carl46
Marlin has advised owners of their old hammer pump guns that they are unsafe to shoot. I don't recall exactly why, but it seems like there was something about firing out of battery.

It's been almost 20 years so the details are a little fuzzy, but there was a period SASS Cowboy shooting where Marlin hammered pumps were allowed. There was a specific model when if it wasn't assembled correctly and/or checked on a frequent basis one of the safety features could fail which IIRC could cause the gun to fire out of battery causing the bolt to come out the back of the gun, hitting the shooter. This caused SASS to ban all pump shotguns except the Winchester 1897 in either 12 or 16 gauge and any replicas in those two calibers. The Marlins weren't very common and I only remember two couples who used them versus the hundreds of people who used the Winchester 1897.

Marlin, which had no control over these old guns and what ammo might be used, correctly covered themselves legally by saying the guns should no longer be used. The Winchesters did not have this design issue and apparently the Winchester company that made the 1897 pump shoguns had changed hand so many times that they could not be held liable even if there was an accident with a 1897 pump.


I have become addicted to English hammered shotguns to the detriment of my wallet.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456
Likes: 86
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
Originally Posted by ed good
12bore, shooting smokeless in a damascus gun is pushing it...doing so in such light barrels, is even more risky...

.017 seven inches down in a 16 is risky and could easily result in a bulge or an eruption if even a slight blockage occurs...

you were lucky shooting both guns...

other opinions?

Yeah, here's mine. You're full of it. It didn't result in "an eruption", obviously. Why didn't it, ed, if it was unsafe?

Calm down Stanley Ed didn't say anything bad about your ground swatting covey shooting grandpappy.

HomelessjOe #603644 09/28/21 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 182
Likes: 40
Luck has nothing to do with it. Being knowledeable of what you have is the important thing. It has been shown thru pressue testing that the pressure at 10" or less from the muzzle of most low pressure loads is 2000 p.s.i. or less. Definately no danger of of an eruption or even a bulge.


"As for me and my house we will shoot Damascus!"
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.234s Queries: 95 (0.193s) Memory: 1.0204 MB (Peak: 1.8988 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 20:27:29 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS