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I never got all that far south of Marrakech.

In grad school, while I was on leave without pay from the Agency to finish my MA (ended up not going back), I basically recruited a fellow grad student for them. But when he told me what they offered him (contract rather than staff, and as a NOC in Ndjamena), I told him that I'd turn it down. He ended up going there. Came down with malaria. Wife had a worse problem: amoebic dysentery and she had no resistance to it. They had to return to the States. The doctors told her she could never go anywhere like that again.

I never could figure out why Qadhafi wanted to annex part of Chad. What the hell was he thinking? Wait . . . Qadhafi and thinking don't necessarily fit in the same sentence.

The Europeans who created a bunch of countries that are half Muslim/half Christian/animist didn't do the locals any favors. Frankly, I'm not surprised that Sudan split. Kinda surprised more countries haven't gone the same way. Unlike Europe, the Africans never had a chance to solve those ethnic issues before they became independent countries. Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia are good examples of what happens when ethnic issues aren't considered and foreign diplomats are in charge of drawing border lines on a map. Every now and then there's even talk that Belgium might split Walloon/Flemish.

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And the French Canadians.go figure

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Originally Posted by mc
And the French Canadians.go figure

Not to mention the Dixie Americans.


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Larry, given the huge number of African tribes, I don't know how the colonialists could have created single ethnicity countries. For instance, modern Kenya is the size of California and contains 42 major tribes plus a number of smaller ones, many of which were and still are mutually hostile. And even large ones like the Maasai and the Somalis are divided into clans, often also at each other's throats; e.g. in the 1880's, the Purko Maasai nearly exterminated the Laikipiak Maasai. Forty or fifty countries in the space of Kenya would not be workable, even if the tribes had the will and organizational capacity to form stable multiethnic countries, which they did not. While there were some single ethnic nation states in Africa when the Europeans arrived, e.g. in Uganda and West Africa, I doubt if most of the continent was very different from Kenya. Of course, the same tribal situation pertained in much of the world that Europe colonized.

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We're wandering into a fascinating OT. I spent a year in N'djamea recently....Chad has over 250 languages alone...let alone tribes and clans. There is no solution. I was always taught that countries tend to splinter along four fault lines - religion, language, race, political dogma. You have all four In every country in Africa.

I'd like to recommend this site for following the world's conflicts via tweets and posts. It is the best site I've ever found including governmental maps for understanding what's happening. The site will bring up Syria and you can scroll in using two fingers or out and read the tweets and look at the colors on the map. But you can do this on Ukraine, Iraq, etc. For the Sahel go to Africa then click on "Sahel". It will give an comprehensive idea on what is going on in the world of conflict.

https://syria.liveuamap.com

Last edited by Argo44; 01/06/22 03:53 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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And as for Qadaffi and the Ouazou Strip.....a couple of observations. A treaty from the 1930's actually gave Italy the Ouazou Strip....there is gold there. It was never ratified. Qaddafi brought it back like a lot of crack-pot schemes.. And he funded terrorist attacks on America all through Europe and was one of the major drivers of the Lebanese Civil war from 1975.

I landed in N'Djamena in late summer 1981 on Air Afrique on my way to Brazzaville...the plane was chased down the runway and stopped by Libyan armored cars. But the fall of the Libyan army there to Hissen Habre 4 years later gave us a new word....."Technicals"......Toyota Hilux (Tacoma) pickups with light weapons mounted on the bed. At least something came of that adventure....a new word from the Cold War dictionary (and there are versions with "double guns" just to make this relevant). (Habre? - turned into a predictable homicidal maniac and was overthrown in 1991).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Habre's troops thought if they drove fast enough, mines would explode behind them....And I'd love to get one of these diesel engined Hi-luxes back to USA...has to be 25 years old though.

Last edited by Argo44; 01/06/22 05:35 PM.

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I could be wrong, but I thought "technicals" appeared on the scene earlier than that. Like when Algeria jumped into the Western Sahara mess and supported the rebels when the Spanish left and Morocco took over.

Talking Sub-Saharan nations . . . I don't believe there was one (maybe Somalia?) where a majority of the population spoke the same native language. So in that sense, the colonial powers did give their creations a common national language. The problem was that none of those countries were really ready for independence. Some of them still aren't. But the colonial powers might have solved some problems by doing a better job of separating Muslims from Christians/animists, as well as major tribes that were historical enemies. Stuffing them all together in one country where they've been enemies forever based on religion, history, whatever is asking for trouble. Creating a country and calling it "the land of the south Slavs" (Yugoslavia) didn't work out well at all after strong man Tito died.

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Originally Posted by L. Brown
But the colonial powers might have solved some problems by doing a better job of separating Muslims from Christians/animists, as well as major tribes that were historical enemies. Stuffing them all together in one country where they've been enemies forever based on religion, history, whatever is asking for trouble. Creating a country and calling it "the land of the south Slavs" (Yugoslavia) didn't work out well at all after strong man Tito died.

I had Bosnians, Serbs, Macedonians and Albanians in my platoon in the National Guard and they got along fine. The Bosnian was one of the best troops I ever served with. All are extremely successful in their civilian life also. If you were foreign born I made sure I got you. Zero problems.


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Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Originally Posted by L. Brown
But the colonial powers might have solved some problems by doing a better job of separating Muslims from Christians/animists, as well as major tribes that were historical enemies. Stuffing them all together in one country where they've been enemies forever based on religion, history, whatever is asking for trouble. Creating a country and calling it "the land of the south Slavs" (Yugoslavia) didn't work out well at all after strong man Tito died.

I had Bosnians, Serbs, Macedonians and Albanians in my platoon in the National Guard and they got along fine. The Bosnian was one of the best troops I ever served with. All are extremely successful in their civilian life also. If you were foreign born I made sure I got you. Zero problems.


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If heaven ain’t a lot like Dee-troit, I don’t want to go.


Wrong side of heaven.

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Ted

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Righteous side of hell.

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Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
Wrong side of heaven.

Best,
Ted

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Righteous side of hell.

Just send me to hell or Minneapolis it’d be aboot the same to me.


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PFC Lonny Rhoades USA (ret)

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