doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Darne R15 20 Gauge

Here is a new to me Darne 20 gauge R15 I picked up. The gun appears to be all original with .004 and .013 (IC/M) chokes, 25 5/8" barrels, original butt pad and 2 3/4" chambers as marked on the barrels. This particular Darne was a gun built and imported for Stoeger as you can see engraved on the barrels. The 20 comes in at 5lbs and 12 oz on the scale. I patterned the gun with some 7/8 oz 7.5 shot and it patterns very well at 40 yards. The recoil isn't much with 7/8 oz loads. I will not be shooting big magnums through this Darne. This will make a very nice, light carrying pheasant gun next fall.

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I’ll bet it’s not even broke in yet. Nice.

Do you ever hunt grouse or woodcock? Should work slick there, as well.

Shoot it in good health, Matt.

Best,
Ted

I have never hunted ruffed grouse or woodcock. Most of my hunting has been relegated to the prairie part of Minnesota. I have hunted prairie chickens and sharp tails out west and hope to head up to the northern part of the state one day to grouse hunt.

Matt

I like Darnes. Owned a few but never one with left hand cast. You can’t bend a Darne stock.

I've waited a long time to ask this, and this may not be the best venue, but why would anyone want a Darne? Before you flame me let me explain my question a bit, please. I'm not a naysayer against any double gun design, unless the design is just stupid. But, Darnes are so different that I can't get my head around why someone who is a boxlock/sidelock enthusiast would want one. I am known here for not being a Darne enthusiast, but I am still open to reason concerning them.

If someone is especially enthusiastic towards the French way, I can accept that. But, other than that I am at a loss to understand it. Whatever the response, I will give it consideration. It may not shift my paradigm, but I am willing to listen and consider. Convince me. I will not offer any argument to any reason, and I will appreciate any gentile replies.

Simplicity.
It is one of the most simplistic designs. Very few parts & mechanisms to go wrong. They use levers. They use coil springs. Big coil springs (same springs found in Lebel battle rifles)….they just don’t break.

Strength.
It’s the strongest shotgun action out there, bar none. Well….I’d like to see George Hoenigs rotary round in a strength test against a Darne. That would be interesting.

Robust.
These guns were designed to be virtually maintenance free. That’s for real too, damn near maintenance free. Take the breach block off, dip it in kerosene or diesel, dry it….put it back on the action and go to work.
You’ll never ever see a loose Darne either.

Lightweight.
They made heavy ones too, but Darne is synonymous with lightweight 90% of the time. Lightweight but well balanced.

It’s convenient to use in a tight corner. Think a duck blind. Break action guns in tight quarters, especially a blind are a P.I.t.a to load/unload. A Darne isn’t.

Beauty.
It’s in the eye of the beholder…..I find Darnes very attractive. Most all Bruchet built guns, especially the V grades are gorgeous and built to very high standards of fit and finish. The engraving patterns are wonderful too.

They’re different. Different is cool when it works, everytime. It’s a bonus if you can shoot it well, unfortunately most people seem to have trouble shooting a Darne….stock fit, especially cast is one draw back. I’ve owned 5 Darnes. 4 of them fit me well and I shot them well….my little V19 20 gauge was unfortunately not one of the 4. I did fine on wild birds with it, but was horrendous shooting clays with it. I sold it.

Darnes…I’m a fan.

Dustin,
Bravo. Couldn’t have said it better myself. The spring that drives those strikers will continue to work, even if they do break.

Stan,
I’m at a point where I believe there are more important differences in the people who are trying to run sporting shotguns than there are in the guns. Some guys can run a pump (I used to be that guy) others, can’t or, maybe more importantly, won’t. There are a lot more people that have never even seen a Darne, much less used one for a season or three, than people who have. I sold new Bruchet guns to guys who pretty much became converts, and sent anything else they had, down the road. I am not that guy, by the way, I enjoy lots of different guns. Or, did. Still sorting that out. Unfortunately, one of the guns I shoot best at the moment, is an ugly Remington 20 gauge autoloader. I’m not happy about that. But, shooting an 1100 will sure beat the hell out of joining the kids I grew up with, who, to a one, have aged out of the field, for a game of cribbage or 500 on a fall afternoon.

Which camp are you in Stan? Ever seen a Darne? Run one?

Anyway, a guy who can run a Darne and enjoys it, is still a guy who is out there. That should be enough for a bystander.

Best,
Ted

I might have one for you.

Best,
Ted

Thanks for the replies, Dustin and Ted. That is exactly what I was looking for. Well thought out and written reasons.

I can appreciate strength, simplicity and robustness. And, the ease of reloading in a blind or pit. I think that one may be open to debate, as I have used 32" barreled boxlocks in boats, pits and blinds for many years and never felt hindered in any way, but I see the point. Same point can be made for autoloaders and pumps. I guess the two main hurdles I can't cross right now are the lightweight deal, and the looks. I understand your fondness for a relatively light weight gun, Dustin. I well remember your pictures of birds taken on the rocky slopes, and also how much you walked obtaining them. Light weight isn't a need for me at age 70, given my types of hunting. Maybe at 80 ...... bound to happen sooner or later. As to the beauty, I just can't see it. That's not debatable, it's just a matter of personal taste. I will not belittle someone who DOES see the beauty there, however.

I have seen and handled a Darne, Ted, and worked the action on it. Never shot one. So, I'm in that camp. Having grown up on a boxlock S X S, it's just ingrained in me. I never owned a pump until a few years ago, and have a hard time remembering to shuck the things when I shoot. I can imagine my clumsiness in learning to open, reload and close a sliding breech gun quickly. Maybe that's just too new a trick for this old dog.

Best to you both, SRH

Stan, I believe you were with me woodcocking when I shot my R10 20 ga. Take a look at the compilation in the second forum. Page 5 of it compares a boxlock's parts count with the Darne's. 41 parts for the "tipping" gun compared with 27 for the Darne. I've read accounts from helicopter pilots in VN wherein sawed-off Darne's were carried by pilots because of the reliability factor handling swollen paper buckshot hulls. A Darne can cycle water buffalo crap compared with a box lock. French occupation of VN left a lot of Darnes in country when the French left VN. Mishandling the main spring during barrel removal can be a problem due to the design. The tip end is grooved and can be broken by metal tools. Ted recommends the plastic cap of a pen to mash it down for removal if its too stiff for thumb depression. There are ways to get around the goofy safety lever, but don't expect to snap shoot one with the safety on as one can do with a tang mounted safety. All in all, it's a solid design and you'll never hear the term "off face" when applied to a Darne except to compare it to a box lock's "off face" issues. Its extraction of loaded shells and ejection of fired hulls is another positive feature compared with a BLE or BLNE. Gil

Might I just add that Darne's are just plain cool. I have several different makes of double barrels and like them all but Darne's have always been higher up on my cool list of guns. One of the things that draws me to them is the fact that they are generally light weight. I have read a lot of grumbling about how much recoil Darnes have and that is because as Americans we think we have to shoot magnum loads all the time and pound our shoulders regardless of what gun we are shooting. My new 20 gauge Darne patterns 7/8oz loads of 7.5 or 6's very nicely at 40 yards with little recoil. If you think you need mangnum 1 1/4oz loads, well your going to have to deal with recoil. Choose the proper ammunition for the gun like is done in England and recoil issues will go away.

I have 2 Darnes: a 10 (which is a pretty rare gauge in a Darne, at least in the US) and a 12. The 10 is finished to the level equivalent of an R-10, although it probably dates to the late 1890s or very early 1900s and I'm not sure the R/P/V nomenclature was in place when this one was manufactured. The 12 is a P-19, but clearly pre-war, as it came home in a GI's barracks bag at the end of the war, according to the seller.

I like the way they handle, although I do find the safeties less ergonomic than the tang safeties on most of my sxs and o/u shotguns.

Darnes tend to be at the lighter end of the scale for gauge - my 10 weighs 7 pounds 3 ounces, which makes handloading for it mandatory. It has 2-7/8 inch chambers and I use a lot of 16 gauge card wads filling the shot cup to get the shot column level (generally 1-1/16 ounces of shot) up to a point where I get a decent crimp. I was shooting RST shells when they were available, but they are not currently available, so it's handloads or nothing. On the other hand, the 12, which has 2-1/2 inch chambers, weighs almost 6-3/4 pounds, more like a standard British game gun proofed for 1-1/8 ounce shells.

They both kill clay birds dead and do the same on pheasants (when I do my part). I like them.

Darne shotguns are at least interesting & I can think of a lot of US & European double guns that are uglier.

For those more well informed, what is the proper pronunciation of "Darne"? I apologize for my ignorance but my 1 year of high school French in Mrs. Cohee 's class was wasted conjugating verbs & such as opposed to anything useful in learning to speak French.

Darn. For extra credit in French gun word class, remember the French pronounce “Charlin” like we pronounce “Charley”.

Best,
Ted

Well, I learned something today.

I wasn't sure of the correct pronunciation either, but was told by a pretty knowledgeable gun guy that it was pronounced "Dar-nay". I have assumed that was correct ever since. But knowing that Ted was a U.S. Distributor for this brand, and that he has actually been in their factory in France, I am quite satisfied that he knows the correct pronunciation. I will even take Ted's word for it that there actually is a real physical Darne factory with buildings and actual gun making employees... which is more than we can say for E.M. Reilly.

Thanks, Keith. Larry would tell you the same thing about the pronunciation. He was there, too.

There for sure WAS a factory with gunmakers, when I was there. Nice facility with large and tall windows, and an underground range for regulating double rifles. But, last I heard, Herve’ was retired (he is my age, 60) with some health issues, and the new ownership wasn’t building anything. I don’t know if it is over, but, nothing seems to be happening at the moment. The factory built some fantastic versions of the Petrik O/U, but, the last catalog doesn’t show that, it shows a modern, and typical, generic boxlock O/U.
The website is up, but, unresponsive.

Best,
Ted

😂😂😂😂

i enjoy the mechanical varieties of various types of sxs guns....let's face it - all of our myriad sxs guns are by their very nature based upon an ancient form....i stumble through the descriptions of obscure patent's in crudgington & baker, and read the thumbnails that diggory posts of the odd and unusual guns that pass through his hands....self cocking hammer guns, tolley's giant grip, cashmore's outboard lock trapgun - all the weird and wonderful.

i enjoy owning and using guns that fall outside the norm....i appreciate french guns, in part because they often stepped outside normal conventions. i've owned a couple of darnes (both gone - as they did not fit me)....and i own a couple of mf ideals (which do...)

the last four guns i have acquired have included....a jaeger verschluss (with the two parallel hooks that pivot on easily replaceable hinge pins)....a lefever pivot-lever gun (1890) with more adjustments than you can shake a stick at....a dougall lockfast gun, that i took a chance on - and came through with surprisingly good tubes and nice mechanics....and a j.p.sauer & sohn 16 hammer gun. what they have in common is the fact they interest me (and they all fit me reasonably well - the jaeger & dougall particularly well)....they all can be used (within limits)....and they each have historical significance within the rich past of the sxs.

i know that you have shot competitively....i just dabble....but - you know what they say - different strokes...