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A Special Custom Double Rifle to Hunt Rare Dangerous Game in Wisconsin

Hello All,

I've brought this over to share with the readers here.

I expect most of you have probably never seen these rare Dangerous Animals before. Well, they have infiltrated the suburbs here in Wisconsin. It is believed they mutated by drinking the discharge water from one of our Nuclear Power Plants. Subsequent in-breeding has further altered their ravenous behavior to the point that unprovoked attacks on animals and people have become an all to often serious occurrence.

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Here are a few pictures of various mutations of the vicious WISCONSIN KILLER RABBIT.

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So, I have taken it upon myself to help combat these satanic creatures.

As you know, a Double Rifle is designed for that quick second shot in case the dangerous animal charges. Such is the case here. If the first shot fails to stop a charge, the second shot is quick to finish the job. Although I have a battery of double rifles to choose from, ranging in calibers from 7x65R, up-to 700 NE, none of them really fit the bill for the task at hand, namely hunting these Dangerous Animals.

I needed a very special Double Rifle. It had to be in a caliber that was quiet for use in populated suburban areas, and it had to be fast-handling for the quick and nimble game to be hunted. It also had to be light weight to carry - in case a rapid run-away departure was required to retreat from a charging pack of the killers.

So .... I contacted Aaron Little, a Bespoke Rifle Master Gunsmith, and asked him to build me a Special Double Rifle of my design. Aaron has built 2 previous Double Rifles for me. A 600NE and a 700NE. Now I asked for a Double Rifle at the other end of the caliber scale. This rifle would be used exclusively to Hunt-Down and Kill the Mutated WISCONSIN KILLER RABBITS.

As he had done for me in the past, Aaron came through with a wonderful rifle, specifically designed for the upcoming hunt of these Vicious Devils. As expected, the workmanship is absolutely Flaw-Less.

Here are the rifle's specifications:

Make: A.M. Little Bespoke Custom Armsco Box-Lock
Caliber: 25 acp
Action: Engraved Scalloped Boxlock w/ Extractors
Barrels: Monoblock 23-1/2" Lothar Walther
Rear Sight: 2 Leaf Express Rear Sight - 1 Standing, 1 Folding on Raised Quarter Rib
Front Sight: Raised Ramp with Gold Bead and Flip-up Ivory Night Sight
Stock: Checkered Straight Grip AA Fancy Turkish Walnut w/ checkered Butt Plate
Forend: Checkered AA Fancy Turkish Walnut w/ Deeley Release
LOP: 14-5/8"
Weight: 6 pounds 11 ounces - 6 pounds 11.4 ounce loaded
Safety: Non-Automatic

Muzzle Energy: 90 ft/lbs
Recoil Energy: 1/10 ft/lbs

Regulation: 30 yards

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Here are some pictures.















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Regulation was tested with 3 kinds of Factory Ammo. Future hand-loads are sure to improve performance.



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The 25acp is a semi-rimmed cartridge. You can see the rim recess in the chambers in photo 14 & 15.
Even with this very small rim, the spent carridges extract flawlessly.



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Never before has the World seen a center-fire Double Rifle in such a diminutive caliber as the 25acp. As a side note, this is a true ONE-OF-KIND. Once all the WISCONSIN KILLER RABBITS have been eradicated, I'm sure to have a lot of fun shooting this one along side my 700NE. Its great to have the BIGGEST and the SMALLEST Double Rifle in my collection. I now have a Double Rifle in a really big center-fire caliber, and one in a really small center-fire caliber. So, now I'm ready for anything on the planet, from Elephant, tot Tit-Mouse.



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Comparing the ballistics of these two extreme double rifles shows following:

Rifle Weight:
700NE = 18 lbs 10 oz
25acp = 6 lbs 11 oz

Bullet Weight:
700NE = 1000 gr
25acp = 50 gr

Bullet Velocity:
700NE = 2000 ft/sec
25acp = 890 ft/sec

Muzzle Energy:
700NE = 8,900 ft/lbs
25acp = 90 ft/lbs

Recoil Energy:
700NE = 150 ft/lb
25acp = 1/10 ft/lb

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By the Way ...... The rifle performed flawlessly ..



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You should change your screename to “Pondoro”.
😁
Slick little rifle.

I take it that you chose .25ACP rather than .25-20 so you could use a vest pocket .25 Colt as your back up gun if you didn’t stop a charge?

I’m thinking the day I see creatures like that in the woods, I’ll pay Aaron to build me a .600.

Try to stay out of mischief the remainder of the new year. Tightening up those groups should keep you busy.

Best,
Ted

I thought you passed on the 25-20 because you knew a bottle necked, rimmed cartridge, are hideously hard to load when you are facing a deadly charge from a terror which you are facing in the rascally rabbits in Wisconsin. Should be fun working up a few loads to get the maximum performance out of that rifle. And shooting even a few hundred rounds to do so should not give you either a headache or flinch like I got years ago with a .458. Fun project and nice outcome.

And all these years I thought a rimmed cartridge instead of a rimless one was far more functional in a break-open rifle. What a dummy!

Nice toy, but you really did error in not chambering it in .25-20. Superb work by Michael, regardless.
JR

Lovely, to only use one word. I am curious though, where did you source the correct tubes? The ACP is a true quarter-bore at .250". The 25 caliber rifles, of course, use .257/.258".

Thanks!

The trade label is a stitch.

Well done.

A bespoke Huglu....

Next: Fully engraved Ivory gripped gold plated Lorcin.

I can't open your pictures, but it sounds like a double worthy of Elmer Fudd.

Hoot,

One exception, the British .297/.250 Rook also uses .250 or .251 diameter bullets . I believe Holland and Holland built at Least one Royal SLE double in that calibre.

They made a number of double rifles in .295 Rook, including the one in the last Holts which unfortunately King Umberto of Italy did not have to hand when his assassin came calling.

Try a different browser. I had to copy the URL into Firefox to see the pictures

Happy to see that you spent the extra $$ for the flip up moon sight. That will really help when spotlighting critters. Every Dangerous Game double rifle should be so equipped.

Very nice! I was expecting "The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch"!?

Thanks Parabola. I was not aware of that one. The old .25 Stevens rimfire also used a true quarter bore. Other than the .25ACP's, I do not know where a feller would find the correct barrels.

Parabola & Hoot, There is another similar caliber, .255. I have two rifles in this caliber which is amazingly accurate. Unfortunately not doubles!

Purely a guess. The picture of the breech has the appearance as though the barrels have been lined. If so, that may be a T.J.'s liner?

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Hello and thank you to all for the reply.


No error, I've seen severl 25-20 Double Rifles over the years, and I didn't want to repeat that chambering. I wanted a DR that was truly a one-of-a-kind. The 25acp is NOT rimless - it is semi-rimmed and works great.

Hello Brittany Man,

Yes, the moon sight was required in case you had to follow a wonded creature into dark cover.

Hello Parabola,

I have several Martini rifles in .297/.250 Rook caliber, and I reload that cartridge. That cartridge is much bigger than the 25acp. I wanted a "very small" centerfire cartridge that no one has ever used before.


Hello craigd,
Hello Hoot4570,

As listed in the specifications, the barrels are Lothar Walther. The barrels have NOT been lined. The barrel blanks weighed 5 pounds, 3 ounces, each when received. They were turned down and mon-blocked into the action.

Finished weight of the rifle is 6 pounds, 11 ounces.

Buckstix,

I think you have probably achieved the ownership of the only ever .25 ACP Double rifle ever built. It is a very neat little gun.

Is it as quiet as you hoped?

Congratulations

Parabola

Its so quiet i cant hear it without my hearing aids

As it was never made as a black powder round it is truly a Nitro Express (though quieter than most) and you have a choice of solids for one barrel and soft-nose for the other

Thanks buckstix. I scooted right past the specifications and went straight to the pictures. (It must be my public schooling.) I had earlier searched for a .25ACP tube for a different project and came up empty. Now I need to revisit that project...

What kind of velocity are you getting at that barrel length?

Velocities are shown in the groups picture

I can't see the pictures and there is no link to copy and paste. Google shows the graphic for a broken link.

Sorry - others have no problem ?

I can't see the photos either.
Mike

Nor can I

I can't see pics either

I don't know how it would work for others, I right clicked and opened in a new tab.

An interesting thread with no pictures. Oh, well.

try over on AR. I can see them on there but not Here, not sure why:


http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/1101051962

Thanks, SKB.
That's a beautiful rifle. And unique.

All photos show up immediately for me.

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply.

I don't know why some can see my pictures and some can't. They are up-loaded to my web page (www.buckstix.com) and linked to the forum here.

Here's an update:
I found hand-loading these tiny missiles a bit difficult with my stubby fingers. Results are promising. First shots were a bit wider than later shots. It took me a bit to get used to the lack of violent recoil.

I've got a set of Corbin Swage dies coming to try some "out-of-the-box" heavier bullets. I'm anxious to see how they do.

That last set of targets is interesting. If I'm interpreting them correctly the rifle shoots better the more you shoot, with that particular load. Your L1 and R1 shots are spaced further apart, on both targets. Then, as you shoot more through the barrels the L and R shots converge. It appears to either be a result of the barrels warming, or fouling. When you get to the second and third shots the L and R barrels are printing much closer together.

I would think this is the opposite of what one would desire. Although not all rifles do it, what is most desirable for me is for the first shots out of a cold, clean barrel to print where the sights are. I hope more load testing proves that not to be the case, and makes the group sizes more consistent, and smaller.

Were the bores lapped?

Hello Stanton Hillis,
Thanks for the reply.

Most all my double rifles (I have 20 counting this one) shoot wide with the first few shots from a "clean" oiled barrel. When finished shooting, to be safe, I clean and oil the bores to preserve them for the next outing, which may be far into the future. But when hunting, one takes a few fowling shots for practice, and then goes afield with a "fowled" gun. The targets above were shot on 2 separate outings, starting with cleaned & oiled bores. In addition, new barrels take a few hundred rounds to break-in. These barrels have less than 50 shots total to date, so I anticipate groups will improve. I'm not sure if standard (non-match grade) Lothar Walther barrels are lapped.

Guess we'll just have to use our imagination, hey Bill?? RWTF

Buck,

If your bores, and in particular the chambers, are still oiled the back thrust on the action face is increased on the first shots (R1 and L1 in this case, the increased horizontal dispersion moving away from the centre of gravity).

While it will not do any harm with your rifle, with a more powerful round and a weaker action it can cause damage especially if the case is tapered. .303 Lee-Enfields have been known to shear off the smaller locking lug when shot “wet”.

Swabbing the bore and chamber with either a dry patch, or better yet a patch soaked in lighter fluid and then a dry one, should remove the problem and avoid disturbing the game (or neighbours) with a fouling shot.

If I am going stalking on consecutive days and the rifle hasn’t got wet I leave it fouled till the session has finished.

Parabola

I used the link SKB posted above. Worth a look.

Hello All,

Today I tested some Cast Lead bullets. I think I've found my hunting load.

With a muzzle velocity averaging 1160 fps, it developes 150 ft/lbs muzzle energy with over 110 ft'lbs remaining at 65 yards. (about max distance for a clean head shot given the accuracy)

A lovely weapon, complements to both Aaron Little and Buckstix.

The post creates real temptation to commission a small bore double rifle to play with too.

Hello old colonel,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, you should do it. Many hours of fun to be had.

buckstix,
I note that my 25RF REM. #4 gives 1060 fps with the factory 67gr bullet. This load was very well thought of as a small game cartridge, in it's day. Your rifle should be a "hoot" in the squirrel woods.
Mike

Hello Der Ami,
Thanks for the reply.

It should do well on any number of small game animals here in Wisconsin. I also intend to take a whitetail deer with it next fall, albeit at very close range.

Please don't try that stunt, buckstix. All you will do is wound the poor animal, to let it go off and suffer a slow death. The very idea is abhorrent.
JR

+1 John.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels a whitetail deer should only be harvested when a clean quick kill is the likely result. I have my doubts that anyone could be certain that a 52 grain lead bullet at 1160 fps muzzle velocity can be counted upon to reliably penetrate a deer's skull, and destroy a part of the brain that will provide a quick kill. I have no doubt that it could be done if everything was perfect. But there is really no margin of error or extra energy to help mitigate a less than perfect shot. A small head movement or slight sighting error could turn a shot behind the ear into a broken jaw. Several years ago, I helped a buddy recover a nice big whitetail doe that he had hit with a .338 Win. Magnum. It jumped forward as he pulled the trigger, and the 180 grain bullet went in behind the liver, and into the paunch. We tracked it in the dark for three hours, and he finally finished it with a head shot as I held a spotlight on it. Not sure how legal that was, but it finally ended the deer's suffering.

That story shows that it is not the cartridge, but rather the "hold". The trick is just don't shoot if the shot isn't right , especially when trying something like that.
Mike

Mostly true, Mike, but a .25 ACP is not nor ever will be suitable for deer. Even a duiker.
JR

People would poach quite a lot where I grew up. 99% of it was done shining with a .22LR and the water bottle silencer. Just saying...

Hello all,
Thanks for the reply.

I don't want to start a big debate on my plan to harvest a whitetail deer with this diminutive double rifle next Fall. I've been fortunate to have harvested 52 Bucks and 252 does over the last 55 years of hunting. I've taken them with small calibers like .14 caliber, and 5mm cf, .... all the way up to 505 Gibbs, and 700 NE caliber. Distances were from as close as 10 feet, to as far out to 600 yards. I'll be reporting the results here next November.

btw ... I've never shot a deer that I didn't kill with the first shot.

That's a pretty impressive record, buckstix. And, I'm truly impressed by it. But, it raises a different question in my mind ............. legality. Do you live in a state that allows deer hunting with tiny calibers like you described? I don't.

I'm absolutely not meaning to sound "holier-than-thou", but just curious.

Never mind. I answered my own question. The research I did said that any centerfire caliber of .22 caliber or above is legal. Where does that leave a .14 caliber (or a 5mm CF)?

Hello Stanton Hillis,
Thanks for the reply.

Today the Law states any centerfire 22 cal or larger. Back in 1988 when I used the .14 caliber, the Law was "any" centerfire. (see my article in the 1988 Guns Illustrated - "14 Fever") But, after so may 17 caliber centerfires came on the market, the Law was changed to 22 caliber or larger.

Glad they came to their "senses".

Thanks for the reference to your article but, I won't bother with looking it up as I have zero interest in that.

[quote

Today the Law states any centerfire 22 cal or larger. Back in 1988 when I used the .14 caliber, the Law was "any" centerfire. (see my article in the 1988 Guns Illustrated - "14 Fever") But, after so may 17 caliber centerfires came on the market, the Law was changed to 22 caliber or larger.[/quote]

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is the smart or correct thing to do. Remember, some states still allow first cousins to marry!

I personally would not use a.220 Swift, .22-250 ,.223,.222 R or even a.22 Hornet for deer but I wouldn't question someone else for doing so. I'm old enough to remember people butchering hogs & beef at home. The caliber of choice was normally a .22 short to the head @ close range (not my choice on the .22 short). Usually it worked well but I remember a few times when it didn't. Trust me when I say it was a bad deal for all parties involved when it didn't.

Using a .25 ACP is a nothing more than a stunt & not fair to the animal if something goes wrong. For the sake of the animal I hope you are extremely lucky & also a good tracker!

Nice execution on your double rifle by your gun builder. Too bad you didn't chamber it for something useful. You mention you selected the .25 ACP chambering because it is a "first" for double rifles. Did it occur to you that there is a reason for that?

Bully for you. I'm sure everyone is very impressed by all that. But it begs a question from me: at what point does your blood lust for stunts with inadequate calibers subside? But I think I already know the answer to that...
JR

When there get to be too many deer on the regional airport in Anoka County, the DNR contracts with a couple sharpies that use suppressed Ruger 10/22s. The deer are shot in the head, at night, from a stand, over bait.

I don’t do it, but, I know it can be done.

Best,
Ted

To quote Lawrence Welk, "wonderful, wonderful."
JR

Hello Ted Schefelbein,
Thanks for the reply.

A Distinguished Marksman friend of mine was contracted to do the same within the city limits of Milwaukee. He used "quiet" low-velocity 22 rimfire ammo in a suppressed Ruger 10/22. He named his gun "Snuffy". He said most shots were 50ft or closer, and head-shots dropped them where they stood.

Mike, it seems you missed my point entirely. I cannot prove it, but always assumed my buddy's "hold" on that doe he shot with a .338 Win. Magnum was good. He was a fine shot who hand-loaded for fine accuracy, and he always sighted his guns in and got plenty of practice. He told me he was heading back toward camp near dusk when the doe and two yearlings stepped out onto a logging road and stopped. He had a broadside shot at a stationary deer at around 50-60 yards with a rifle that had way more horsepower than needed to do the job. But he said that as he was squeezing the trigger with a "hold" on the heart, the deer suddenly leaped forward into the brush. All it took was a split second of movement, and his shot landed a good foot behind where he intended. When I joined in on the tracking job, we had a spotty blood trail of dark blood, but he was sure we'd soon find the deer piled up dead. It didn't work out that way. I saw the deer first with my rechargeable spotlight. It was standing with her ears down and head in her side looking back at me. It's tail was clamped down and it was obviously hurting. But it moved into the darkness before my buddy could get in position for a finishing shot. It was another hour and a half before we were able to finish it.

If the OP really killed 304 deer in 55 years of hunting, all one shot kills, and never lost or wounded one, that is an outstanding record. I related a couple weeks ago how I got hypothermia tracking a deer I shot, and subsequently lost because the wind and snow became so bad I couldn't track it any longer. That was a roughly 45 yard standing broadside chip-shot with a .50 cal. flintlock, and I never saw a deer go down so fast. I held for a high heart shot, which I like because the massive blood loss ensures a very fast kill, and the lower chambers often keep pumping and get a lot of blood out of the meat. I'll never know what went wrong, because it began flopping around as I was reloading, which I was certain was only nerves. Then it jumped up and took off running. But I know things don't always work out perfectly when hunting. I've had bullets deflected by a small branch or twig. And even a 300 gr. .50 cal. Maxi Hunter bullet wasn't enough to compensate. I killed several deer with a .45 cal flintlock, and none went over 40 yards before dropping dead. But I switched to the .50 cal because I didn't feel that a .45 cal 90 grain roundball at over 1100 fps was enough for less than perfect shots. A .25 cal ACP 52 gr. bullet at roughly the same velocity is much more marginal, but fine for small game. I used the .50 cal flintlock simply because I felt that putting the crosshairs of a scoped .30-06 on a deer was too easy, and I didn't mind losing out on killing a deer because of something like a bad flint or my pan powder getting wet. But when I learned to make the thing go off reliably, it was more than adequate to make a quick humane kill... except for that one I lost.

I know my bolt action .22 LR could easily put a bullet in a deer's ear every time at 50 yards, and kill it instantly. I do that every summer on groundhogs. I don't need to risk wounding a deer to prove it to myself. If the OP hits a deer with .25 ACP bullet in the jaw because it moved it's head as the trigger was pulled, do you think we will hear about it running off to starve?

At least a good .22LR can place the bullets with surgical accuracy, unlike the double rifle in question. And, that is not meant to be a disparaging comment on this, or other double rifles. Surgical accuracy is not expected with them. They weren't designed to head shoot squirrels in the treetops.

Hello Stanton Hills,

I don't intend to shoot squirrels in the treetops. And, how many double rifles do you own where-upon you base that opinion? No need to answer.

Yep.
I grew up in semi-rural SWPA, and a lot of people had good-sized plots of corn.
Marauding deer were handled with a .22 at night.
Totally legal if the crop was above a certain % of income. The Game Dept just wanted to come see the deer; one phone call handled it.

I'll bite. You don't need to own a double rifle to know that they are not precision tack drivers. But you already knew that.

Look, buckstix. If your ego says this must be done, you're going to do it, regardless of the ethics. The id cannot be denied in your case.
JR

John Roberts,
I am not arguing that the 25 ACP is suitable for deer, only that with correct placement it will kill one. Being from southern Mississippi I'm pretty sure that if you ask around, you will find out that they have frequently been killed with 22 LR (less powerful than 25ACP) or maybe 22short in your area. None of these are suitable but, at least 25 ACP (with expanding bullet) is legal in Alabama, being centerfire. I can remember reading other people's opinion that 25-35, even 30-30 are not suitable for deer. I think you would agree they will kill a deer under the right conditions, while under other conditions they might not be suitable.
Mike

Does one barrel shoot more reliably to point of aim and group better than the other?
Have you shot groups for each barrel independent of the other?
How are the trigger pull weights?

Mike,
Sure it CAN. But that peashooter is not suitable for a reliable kill shot on a grown deer. This near toy buckstix has had built can be used for bagging a rabbit for the pot, a treed raccoon, or a feral cat at 40 ft., but using it on deer, even by Ol' One Shot, is nothing but a "look-at-me" stunt. Otherwise, why do it?
JR

Hello Tom Findrick,
Thanks for the reply.

Trigger pulls are both consistent and predictable at about 3 pounds. I have not tested the barrels independently for groups. I'm satisfied that the composite groups are acceptable for hunting. I'm continuing to test further to improve the groups and will post updates here.

Hello to the others,

This started out as a fun post and as stated above, I'm not going to debate this further. If you self-appointed ethics judges aren't comfortable with "your" abilities, that's ok. I'm most confident with "mine". If you don't like my posts, feel free to block them, then you won't have to suffer from my ethics.

It's not us who will suffer.

It's a somewhat neat item, executed well by a very talented gunmaker, in a poor choice of caliber. But you laid out your plans and intentions for questionable use of this piece. I disagree and believe it's a selfish stunt. I will leave you to your own devices.
JR

Thank you

That thing is really cool. I would like something like that but a lot of the time It would be illegal to hunt small game with it in Colorado. Can't hunt small game with a bullet larger than .230 during deer and elk seasons -which run a long time.

Thanks
One more question;
If the barrels are regulated to converge at 30 yards, I assume the bullets then start to diverge past that.
What happens to the POI past the 30 yards, and how would you compensate for the longer distance ( kind of why I asked about testing each barrel individually)?

RyanF,
In Alabama centerfire rifles are not legal for small game (squirrels, rabbits, etc.) and rimfire rifles are not legal for large game. Therefore, this rifle can only legally be used to hunt large game. The skill to build such a rifle is evidence of the skill to use it effectively.
Mike

It’s really a non-issue concerning double rifles and the distances at which they are effective. In the case of this rifle it(approx/averages) putting a shot out of each barrel about 1/2” on either side of the POA of their given side. This is effectively the distance of the spread at the breach, sometime called shooting “
Parallel”.

If same gun was to converge at 50yds, that means each barrels POI came in 1/2” to meet at the POA. Beyond 50yds it would cross, theoretically at 100yds it would cross 1/2” to the other side of the POA, or in other words the left barrel would hit 1/2” right of the POA. There are many compounding variables that complicate that though.

I’ve shot and regulated over 125 iron sighted double rifles…takes a hell of a shooter to be able to worry about such things.

A parallel shooting double would theoretically never spread or converge, but once again look at the tool and it’s use. Not to mention the ability of a shooter to be able to meet that level of performance.

Further, when regulating a double you don’t go by one shot out of each barrel. Best to shoot three shots per barrel, take the average of those three shots, and make your regulation adjustment based off the average.

The builder isn't the user, Mike. If you meant to say "the desire to build such a rifle is evidence of the skill to use it effectively" guarantees nothing.
JR

For those of you who are swooning over this abortion of a double rife (no insult intended to the builder) consider this.

As per the somewhere above post from the owner re. his developed "hunting" load. for the .25 ACP double rifle:

MV 1160 / ME 150 ft/lbs . Bullet weight is not stated but if you back calculate it is a 50 gr bullet & he states it is a lead bullet. That is a bullet w/ a sectional density of .113

My .22 LR small game load of choice is the WW 40 grain Power Point. I like it because the lot #s of the stuff I have shoot small groups (You can find .22 LR loads with a MV & ME that exceed both this & the .25 ACP load significantly) & it kills small game well.

Published data for the WW.22LR 40 gr PP load is:

MV 1280 / ME 146 f/lbs. & the bullet has a sectional density of .115 (higher SD means the bullet penetrates better)

The .25 ACP is at best equal to a 40 gr .22 LR. Both will kill deer under ideal conditions but that is not the point.

Unless I'm starving & have nothing better available I won't be using either for my deer hunting.

Hello Tom Findrick,
Thanks for the reply.

gunmaker answered your question precisely. Saved me having to explain "parallel" groups - muzzle distance apart - forever. Only a a very few of my 29 Double Rifles actually shot parallel.

Buckstix,

A deer with a cannon! I like cats more than you but, whatever. 25 ACP...please follow up

I mean good grief, the guy cannon shot a buck! Hall of fame!

John Roberts,
Point taken. This far in, I had forgotten that.
Mike

Hello RyanF,
Thanks for the reply.

I added my Cannon Hunt to my signature.