doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com If you like Big Bore Fowlers...

Giles Marriott just posted a new batch of 8 bore doubles for sale. Many, as per custom in prior batches, with no prices, but they are responsive by email if you find something interesting. I bet this shop has sold 15 big bores in the past 1.5 years from my observation. To me it sounds like someone selling a collection many years in the making. Where else in the sporting gun vendor world can you go into one shop and browse 26 eight bores and 8 four bores? Maybe some of our UK members have visited this shop and can comment.

Gile Marriott

He has had those for a while.

He tried to unload some in Holt's last sale.

OWD

Good guys to do business with. I just bought a rifle from them this week. I have imported a number of guns for clients from them and have been impressed with the quality.

As far as I was aware a guy in the trade who collected them sold Giles the whole lot when he became ill, some of it looked pretty nice, a friend came in the workshop with a purchase from there it was in very good order.

SKB, how can we determine which of these guns are antiques and can be imported easily? His "antique" list includes only three guns and I'm sure some of the bigbores are pre 1898. Thanks.

Proof marks and serial numbers are the easy way to tell what is an antique. As some recent clients of Holt's have found out, having an antique shipped directly to you is not always easy nor cheap. One board member here, a client of mine that I import for out of the UK found out his gun was at customs ready to be cleared. The thing he was not expecting was customs required him to hire a broker to clear the antique due to the value of the gun. By the time you pay shipping, brokerage etc it really starts to add up.

I am that guilty person SKB mentions but is too nice to call by name. Holt’s did suggest that I just import the gun as an antique. I wanted to just send it the normal way via SKB but the thought of getting it six month sooner made me decide to give it a try. Ten years or so I could buy a gun at Holts and have them mail it to my house for $55.00 so this is something I have done in the past. This should have been easy on both end as a 1870 made gun which is considered to not be a gun by BATF and an antique to boot. Where it got complex is having people at Customs and FedEx both give me wrong information and then refuse to accept their error.

Fedex had a total dollar figure, they require you to go through a broker, that included import insurance by the broker and a broker fee. Worse the included the cost of shipping(FedEx) which just put me over the limit by about $29.00. There was also an error of the fedex shipping bill which was a number 5 in a box which should have been a 1. That took two hours for them to decide that it was OK to release the item anyways. To get that done I had to speak with three customs people. I found a local import broker who only does a few of these self import packages for guns a year. I was able to show them quickly the gun was pre 1898, an antique and violated no laws to own or import. They were very easy to deal with but a totally unneeded expense.

If I do a second one this would be a cake walk on that end. It took a day of my time, but if done again would take just a few hours unless they screw up different things which will give me a fresh set of knots to untie. Final cost was about what SKB charges, perhaps a few dollars less. If I had not used a broker when none should have been required I would have saved a few hundred dollars. But I have had the gun for months and am still waiting for two other guns to be imported from the auction just before the one I bought the Westley. Time or money as they say.

Here were the bottom lines. FedEx should not have included shipping cost into their calculations. If not I could have easily picked it up from fedex or even had them deliver it to my home. The broker fees were not needed if FedEx had used the correct value. They will be quicker doing this again I’m sure. Customs only got involved because FedEx made a mistake on their Airbill/shipping form. Had the correct number been used Customs was never needed, after the item was declared an antique. Would I do it again. Maybe if I’m in a hurry to get a gun.

I wonder if the clabrough has been cut down

Barrel Browner, Thanks for the insight. OWD, I didn't match up and see if any sold at Holts or not, but that does make sense. Good luck to Giles selling them, it is an interesting collection to be sure.

KY Jon, what is the value cutoff for needing a broker and not needing a broker, and how is that value established?

You must declare the value for the Customs service and that was done by Holts at the time of shipping. It was also declared as a gun made before 1898, so a non gun to BATF and customs and an antique. I can not find my invoice from Holts to give you a accurate answer and the exchange rate has gone up. It was under a thousand, the figure I remember being told was equal to about 700.00 pounds. But with VAT, shipping and cost of the gun it is very easy to get to a thousand dollars quickly. Anything worth importing without doubt will end up needing an importer broker. They are not hard to find and it pays to shop for their fees vary a lot. You might get by without one if the gun was under say 500 pounds but are there many guns you would go to the trouble of importing for that price?

I have imported several guns from the UK and from Giles Marriott. These Guns were both pre 1998 and we well over 4000 pounds. They were both shipped FED X. I picked up the guns at the airport myself with no broker needed. There was no mention of a price cut off for needing a broker. Maybe it is different with FED X in different states but I doubt it. If its an antique, no matter what the price you can pick it up at FED X yourself. That has been my experience everytime.

Forgive my error in the previous post. Pre 1898 of course!

12boreman, was this recently like in the last year? Half the problems were getting people to do what the rules and regulations said not what they just do or do because that’s how the always have done it. People are often mentally lazy and just want to take the easy path even if it requires you to jump through hoops. This was the first time I ran into a dollar value issue and according to my notes the gun and shipping ended up being over $1,000.00 with shipping. This was in "Covid" times and you could not go to Customs in person as they were doing everything by remote and phone contact was very bad.

I do recall American Airlines stopped accepting guns as freight, politics. When you have one transporter drop out prices will rise because less competition. Previously I had a 1890 gun shipped by AA and easily picked it up at the airport. No more. I used fedex before also with few issues. It might just be a squeeze play by anti gun people trying to make it more difficult to ship guns. I have run into that repeatedly at USPS. This almost makes me want to try it again just to see if it goes the same or better.

Just to answer Eightbore's query. The definition of Antique as far as guns are concerned is different here in the U.K. Pre 1939 is the important point and also calibre/bore. If ammunition is deemed to be no longer readily available and it pre dates 1939 and not intended for use it passes as an Antique. Most of those 8 bore guns and 4 bore guns listed would be Antiques over here if not used otherwise they would have to be held on a certificate. He has not listed them as Antiques but he could do if so wished. For instance I have 2 eight bore guns, one I use (on certificate) and one I don't so held as an Antique (not on certificate). I should think that most will also predate your 1898 date so could be dealt with in you Antiques category. If interested then give him a call to explain your requirements. Things like 12 bores, 16 bore and 20 bores if breech loading here have to be on certificate regardless of age. Hope that helps a bit. Lagopus.....

Thanks.

Hm, I like the Watson Brothers (Pair) – 4 bore.
Does anyone want to buy my house? Ha.

We often see the American antique date as pre 1898. Actually, the correct date is pre 1899.

Reminds me of our old, futile attempts to get original pre-1898 shotguns larger than 10 ga legal for waterfowling if non-toxic shot is used.

After all this generous and informative information, let me ask one question. If I win a pre 1899 gun at Holt's, what do I do? Who do I contact?

Holts will contact you regarding shipping an antique gun.