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Joined: Jan 2002
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I would be very reluctant to base any indictment of #6 shot on the wounding of just two birds. Two birds do not constitute a valid statistical sampling in any kind of reasonable comparison. I'm inclined to be thinking the Fox isn't shooting to the same POA that the previous 20 ga. did. A patterning session will tell the tale. I'm a hard sell that the problem is the 75 fps difference.


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Years ago now, with my Lab "Dixie" and the 12 gauge M21 I inherited- 28" bls. choked imp. cyl. & mod- SST, EJ- I used Federal Premium Coppered No. 7&1/2 in imp. cyl barrel, and same load in No. 6 -- 1&1/4 oz. Express- the copper coated lead shot was the secret, IMO- to a real minimum of crippled wing broken birds which were grassed and brought to me by Dixie-- I'd much rather have to pick out pellets from the breasts of the birds on the platter that loose them, as crippled pheasants even with broken legs can run like Jesse Owens. average range est'd was about 25 yards with the first barrel, and for the second barrel if needed for a "finisher" 33 yards- Note- I have never "doubled" on pheasants in 70 years of hunting them with dogs, either flushing or pointing. RWTF


"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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The problem these days with "copper plated" shot is that the copper is mostly just washed on. It can make the pellets easier to find when you're cleaning the birds. Other than that, the "plating" doesn't add much.

If your hit on a pheasant isn't fatal, then you'd better hope that the bird has a broken wing and a broken leg.

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It needs to be remembered that an increase in muzzle velocity does not translate into an equivalent increase in velocity (and energy) downrange. The natural laws of physics dictate that the faster a projectile leaves the muzzle the faster it sheds velocity. IOW, increasing the velocity of your load by 75 fps will not yield a 75 fps increase at 30 yards. The increase will be considerably less than that. I can't put my hands on the ballistics chart that has the appropriate data, but it exists, and is eye opening to many who never learned this before.

I have a hunting/shooting buddy that has been a "master" with a shotgun for much of his life. He has patterned thousands of loads in his development of his proprietary choke tubes. He loves to say that "The shot can leave the muzzle at 1150 fps or at 1300 fps and at 40 yards both loads are going the same speed." He's not quite right about that, but the loads are a lot closer in velocity at distance than most think, and get closer and closer as the distance increases. The reason modern day steel shot loads kill as well as they do, driven at phenomenal muzzle velocities, is that the shot is not misshapen by setback or bore scrubbing, even at hot rod muzzle velocities. That translates into denser patterns, which in turn translates into more shot on the bird (more terminal energy).


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Originally Posted by L. Brown
The problem these days with "copper plated" shot is that the copper is mostly just washed on. It can make the pellets easier to find when you're cleaning the birds. Other than that, the "plating" doesn't add much.

If your hit on a pheasant isn't fatal, then you'd better hope that the bird has a broken wing and a broken leg.

Do you have any evidence that this is the case with BOSS copper plated bismuth? They make their own shot and I have seen no information about whether it is truly plated, or washed.

There is true nickel plated lead shot available, and I load it in a specialty 3", 3/4 oz. dove load for my .410s. It kills like blue lightning, as compared to unplated equivalent lead shot. I can really tell a difference in mortality vs cripples.


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When I was shooting birds for hunt tests my goto load was Rem Handicap 7 1/2's and for the Master dogs we would intentionally let them fly quite a ways to get good retrieves, "No Bird" was expesive for the club and tough on the dog.

My goto load for wild pheasants is B&P 2 1/2" High Pheasant 1oz 6's, works just fine.

MT wild birds
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]


My goto for waterfowl is 7/8oz of ITX 6's in my 12ga
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Last edited by oskar; 02/12/22 09:36 AM.

After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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An ounce of sixes properly placed will kill wild birds all day long. Lower velocity at the muzzle will usually keep patterns from being blown. It could be your patterns are tighter than you think and you didn't get as good a hit as you thought. If you pattern the gun and it is thin use 1 1/8 of sixes. If you go to #5's I'd go to 1 1/8 load around 1100 fps. Pheasants are a big target with a lot of area that doesn't produce a clean kill. They also have lots of feathers that can produce a big poof that doesn't do much.

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Have a budy who prides himself in not driving pellets up the rear end of pheasants. Remarkable how many he kills with head and neck shots. So 'knowing where your pattern is" is his key to success. He prefers 6's over smaller shot. Conversely, he still uses BBB's and even T's on cranes, swans, and giant Canadas, while I maintain that going for head and neck shots with 1's results in fewer lost birds.

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I am curious what variety of pterodactyl the OP’s shooting preserve is breeding.

Most preserve birds are fat, poorly conditioned, fly slow, and are thinly feathered.

They don’t require massive payloads at hyper speed.

Look for a different reason for the cripples.


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Clapper, they are stocked by the Game Commission on public land, and by the time I get around to hunting them, it is usually after the New Year. The birds remaining have been out there a while as the GC's last stocking is at Thanksgiving. I doubt that makes them any easier or harder to kill? I don't shoot many, probably around 10 each season. I am not an expert at killing pheasants. My other guns will handle much stouter loads but I wanted the use the Fox with the hand load I thought appropriate for it. As I said previously I accept your advice and will pattern the gun and load. My season is over so I have some time before next year. Thank you, again.

Last edited by liverwort; 02/12/22 06:17 PM.
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