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#612984 03/26/22 05:41 PM
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ed good Offline OP
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with regard to english made guns, what constitutes out of proof, beyond obvious barrel alterations?

like, do pits or dents cause a gun to be deemed out of proof?

and what about twist steel barreled guns?

and if a gun is deemed out of proof, who does the deeming?


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Hi Ed, this article will explain it better than I can. https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/is-that-gun-in-proof-

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great article...thank you so much...

nothing is said about twist steel barrels...guess that means steel type is not a consideration for proofing...

and when a gun is destined for export, what is the procedure to confirm that it is in proof or not?


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Ed, if twist steel barrels pass the Proof test for either black powder of nitro then they are proof tested to the same standard and safety as any modern types.

For export it has to be of the same Proof standard as those for domestic U.K. sale. The onus is on the seller to ensure that it conforms and if not it is an offence to even just offer it for sale. The Police can take the prosecution but usually it would be one or other of the Proof Houses that take the case to court as they would be contacted in any case to provide expert evidence. Hope that clarifies a little. Lagopus.....

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thank you...

seems like if one purchases an old gun, (say pre 1940), in the uk, one should have it reproofed prior to export, in order to minimize question of safety...

what is the estimated cost of having a gun reproofed?

and what evidence is provided that gun passed proof?

Last edited by ed good; 03/27/22 02:48 PM.

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Originally Posted by ed good
thank you...

seems like if one purchases an old gun, (say pre 1940), in the uk, one should have it reproofed prior to export, in order to minimize question of safety...

what is the estimated cost of having a gun reproofed?

and what evidence is provided that gun passed proof?

Ed, the evidence that a gun has passed proof would be the actual proof/reproof and date stamp markings on the barrel flats. I assume all the shotguns coming out of the British Auction Houses & Dealers are checked over, including bore and chamber measurements to ensure due diligence and legal compliance before sale. Holts Auctions makes this statement under their listings re: Terms and Conditions, "Please note all Lots are listed in accordance with UK Law," My understanding is that only the Proof House can place the proof marks. See my attached photo of a barrel flat marked with the associated proof stamps; original proof markings dated 1904-1925, reproofed with "Crown over R" and date marks 1935/1936, reproofed again with 1959 date mark. UK Proof Marks
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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If a gun is still in proof, there is no real reason to have it reproofed. Proof is proof. I suspect anybody who would do such a thing, have now had their fourth booster shot and wear a mask when driving alone in their car. A dealer or auction house has absolutely no incentive to dump out of proof guns because the cost of doing so and getting caught is far beyond what little they can gain for doing it. Now if the gun has some historic value and deemed not likely to pass reproof and will not be shot, there use to be a proof exempt certificate. Do not know if they still have them as a option.

Think of what selling an out of proof gun would mean to a dealer who sell several thousands guns a year. A few pounds gain against a real inquiry, a fine and thousand of people finding out their reputation for selling good firearms is false.

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So let's say you bought a used American or europen gun pre 1925 and it has had hundreds or even thousands of 2.75 winchester or Remington post 1940 shells through them those guns almost never go to a proof house for reproof or critical examination shady dealers sell them all the time how can we stop shade tree gun dealers unleashing this disaster on the innocent and unsuspecting populace .:)

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So, what's your point, or was it a question?

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Originally Posted by eightbore
So, what's your point, or was it a question?

Thinking it was aimed at a single dealer, known mostly for his no return policy.

Best,
Ted

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