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Jimmy, back up. You originally posted "any number over 32,000". Now it's "any number over 32,999". I don't know when Tony or USRA started in serial number sequence, I only know that your original statement attributed to Tony was in error. I don't have an opinion about your "revised" statement. I have 32,000 series 21s in my collection that were made by Winchester in the fifties. Murphy

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My undestanding is that all the Winchester manufactured Model 21 records reside in Cody. All the USRAC and CSMC manufacture records reside with Tony Galazan.
I think it's been made quite clear that serial #'s over a certain # are not an indication of who manufactured the Model 21.
Another item to consider is that any Model 21 serial # without a W prefix is a pre GCA or mid 1968 manufacture. The 1968 GCA required an alpha in the serial #.
I have a 1968 'Custom Grade' without a W prefix and it is indeed manufactured in the first half of 1968.
Model 21 33412 I previously referred to has no prefix so could not have been manufactured by CSMC.
A recent CSMC Model 21 Serial # I have has an SW prefix, 'S' I assume means 'small frame'.
Anything with a W prefix should be a Winchester Custom Shop, USRAC or CSMC Model 21.
Now how many Model 21's USRAC actually manufactured and how many were Manufactured by CSMC or how many 'Custom Built BY Winchester' Model 21's CSMC built from parts is only known by Tony.-Dick

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The statement that surfaced a few years ago, something similar to "If we do this, that, the other, to your gun, we will insert that information in the Cody records." That kind of ended my search for an original Winchester 28 or .410. OK, so I'm a cynic!! If I ever move west, I think I'll apply for a job at the BB Museum.

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Jimmy W Offline OP
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You are right eightbore. I should have said higher than 32999 to be more clearer. (I have a Custom Grade in the 32000s that is made by USRA). Or higher than any number in the 32000's. This is what Tony's assistant told me. Higher than in the 32000s. So, he is saying all 21s in the 33000s or higher was made by Tony. And Jaqua's paperwork was indentical to mine. These guns were made in the early 70s which was before Tony started making them. It is easy to tell a Galazan 21 from an older Winchester or USRA gun. In fact I remember seeing a Pigeon Grade 21 that had a 33,000 number on it several years ago that was a Winchester made gun. But I can't figure out where I put the info on that. It will show up some day I guess. Just thought I'd pass along this info. Good luck.

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Originally Posted By: Jimmy W
You are right eightbore. I should have said higher than 32999 to be more clearer. (I have a Custom Grade in the 32000s that is made by USRA). Or higher than any number in the 32000's. This is what Tony's assistant told me. Higher than in the 32000s. So, he is saying all 21s in the 33000s or higher was made by Tony. And Jaqua's paperwork was indentical to mine. These guns were made in the early 70s which was before Tony started making them. It is easy to tell a Galazan 21 from an older Winchester or USRA gun. In fact I remember seeing a Pigeon Grade 21 that had a 33,000 number on it several years ago that was a Winchester made gun. But I can't figure out where I put the info on that. It will show up some day I guess. Just thought I'd pass along this info. Good luck.


Please explain 33412, a "Custom Built By Winchester", no W prefix and all attributes show a Pre Custom Shop gun, i.e Flat Side, Double Line Border and markings? Tony saw the gun a few years ago and wanted to purchase it at the time from me. He indicated he did not make it. I finally traded it to him this year. This gun clearly does not fit into the 33,000 rule and has no W perfix?-Dick

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"My undestanding is that all the Winchester manufactured Model 21 records reside in Cody. All the USRAC and CSMC manufacture records reside with Tony Galazan."

Last week I asked Galazan's about a 38,000 number gun and was told that they had forwarded the info to Cody. Unfortunatly, Cody couldn't locate the record either

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Jimmy W Offline OP
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tudurgs, I don't believe what you were told is necessarily true. I have a Custom Grade that has a W32000 serial number. It was made at the USRAC and I got the paperwork from the Cody Museum about 5-6 years ago. So, I would say they have the USRA paperwork unless Galazan just got it in the past few years. He didn't use to have them....... And Dick, what you are saying is what I believe. That all of the 21s with a serial number higher than the 32000s were not necessarily built by Tony Galazan. I have always wondered how many people special ordered 21s with serial numbers in the 34, 35, 36, or 37000s. I'll bet there are some out there. I'm still wondering why USRA would stamp "Custom Built By Winchester" on the top of the rib so it can be read from the right side of the gun instead of the left side of the gun. I would say you would have to special order that or it was a mistake.

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Jimmy, must be special order!
Is your USRAC "Custom Built By Winchester" or Custom Built Winchester"?
I have only been offered one USRAC gun and it was "Custom Built Winchester" and the USRAC catalog says guns are marked "Custom Built Winchester". If marked "By Winchester" I have no doubt USRAC was using up barrels they had in stock.

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I think I will have my old 20 gauge Skeet Grade engraved in the 21-6 pattern and "FORWARD THE INFORMATION TO CODY" This is really scary. What do others think about this bullship?

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Jimmy W Offline OP
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Both of my Custom Grades say CUSTOM BUILT BY WINCHESTER. One from Winchester Repeating Arms and one from USRA. The one from Winchester was ordered by someone and has his name on it. The one from USRA only says Custom Built By Winchester. But this is not unusual. Winchester engraved their barrels so they said CUSTOM BUILT BY WINCHESTER until 1981 when they sold out. And USRA used the barrels they bought from Winchester for a few years. If I remember correctly, when the first 21s came out in 1983 that were completely built by USRA, they dropped the word "BY". This is why there is so much mishy mashy trying to figure out these guns.

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