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Joined: Dec 2001
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A friend has a Holland Royal pigeon gun choked FxF. I have not shot it on game but it is amazing how far out you can turn a clay to dust. Quite satisfying as well.

Full choke has its place, hard to beat on going away late season roosters at a distance is my experience.


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Like Stan, I have had many overchoked guns, all of which threw excellent, tight patterns. One, a Fox Sterlingworth with .042 or .044 chokes, threw great 60 yard patterns with my 1200 fps 1 1/4 ounce loads of lead #4s over Herco and Winchester W114 wads. The Fox is gone, but I still have part of a box of those shells. I still have those 60 yard patterns in my collection. On another subject, a 1910 Purdey with 2 3/4" chambers was not made to shoot 1 1/4 ounce loads at 1250 fps. You should be happy with loads that go 1175 to 1200. Pigeons are only 35 or 40 yards away and the difference between 1175 fps and 1250 fps at those ranges will make little difference to the pigeon.

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Where there's choke there's hope


Mike Proctor
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William Bruette, in Guncraft: Guns, Ammunition, Wing & Trap Shooting, 1912 listed 2 heavy loads; note in a 2 1/2" case.
Pressure at the muzzle would be < 1000 psi

Curtis & Harvey’s (42 gr. = 3 Dram) Amberite
12g 2 1/2” case 47 gr. (3 1/3 Dram) 1 1/4 oz. shot = 11,480 psi by Burrard's conversion

Curtis & Harvey’s Smokeless Diamond (33 gr. = 3 Dram)
12g 2 1/2” case 39 gr. (3 1/2 Dram) 1 3/16 oz. = 11,984 psi

1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 1220 fps
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 1275 fps

Please do share the pattern results!

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I didn't count the 60 yard patterns, but a duck or pheasant couldn't get through it with fewer than a killing amount of shot. It truly looked like a 40 yard pattern.

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The only other gun I've seen shoot as good a big shot pattern was my old AYA lightweight Matador, shooting 1 3/4 ounces of steel #2. I have finished flying cripples at 90 or 100 yards with the Matador and uninjured mallards at 80 yards. That gun is also gone.

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I have a Baker double with .050 chokes. Walls as thick near, the chokes, as I’ve ever seen. Only game I took with it was pass shooting geese, at ridiculous ranges. They were passing through a hedge row and I had perfect left to right crossing shots at singles and pairs. Once I figured out how far to stretch the leads out it was lights out. Even dropped a couple dove that day cutting across that hedge row. When Eightbore speaks about 60 yards patterns being excellent he is exactly right. Some of those old tightly choked guns had far more capability for long range shooting than I’ll ever get to use.

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I foolishly sold the Fox to a friend who drilled it out and gave it to his son. Live and learn. My next project may be to shoot some of those great #4 lead loads in a Super Fox.

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Originally Posted by eightbore
I foolishly sold the Fox to a friend who drilled it out and gave it to his son. Live and learn. My next project may be to shoot some of those great #4 lead loads in a Super Fox.

No way to use those 4s on ducks (legally), like we should be able to, but you can still call in crows and use them on 'em legally. I can tell you from personal experience that, while some espouse much smaller shot for crows, 4s will take them down at some "ridiculous" distances, and close in too.


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I just measured a 20 gauge single shot choke and it is around .040 constriction. I thought I might turkey hunt with it so I wanted to point of impact test it. I used 2&3/4 inch 1 ounce, 2.75 dram, and 7/8 ounce 2.5 dram 6s just to see where it hit. I was surprised to find either load put to 5 to 6 pellets in the kill zone at 30 yards!

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