doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com darne V grade conundrum

Thank you BV. No prefix anywhere serial # is stamped or evidence of removal. Interesting Fab's gun has a toggle safety, this is sliding move to the rear to fire.

The gun Fab illustrates is a transitional model, built before the V model we recognize today became the only V model. Regis Darne patented several new designs in 1909, which, were built alongside the older versions for some time.

A good, clear photo of the flats of your guns barrels would help immensely in narrowing down the age. Markings came and went at the proof house as laws changed, and seeing what marks are there is more important than the serial number from a date of manufacture perspective.

That is a beautiful V20.

Best,
Ted

I see now on the barrel there is what appears to be a 'U' prefix not seen on the action.

I think the chart is going to be pretty accurate on this one. The oval marking regarding the barrels being silver soldered, and not welded, disappeared after the proof laws changed in 1923.

I’m guessing very early 1920s. Exact year might be hard to say, but, that would be pretty close.

Best,
Ted

It's got the mm designation for chambers "65" not cm "6.5" meaning it is at least post June 1912.

I'm going to assume that the number on the Barrels, "U375" is in fact the Serial Number of the gun:



1910-1925 with a Letter followed by 999 guns means that Darne made about about 15,000 guns in those 15 years..minus four years of war.....= 11 years = about 1360 guns a year.
. . . . .-- V-Z (5 x 1360) = 6800 guns + 640 (U999-375) = 7440 guns
. . . . .-- 7440 = about 5.5 years of production at 1360 guns a year
. . . . .-- Now count backwards 5.5 years from 1925.

So it seems the gun were made circa mid 1919.... QED.

(Surely there was not a steady number of guns produced each year so the above is approximate. 1914 for instance would have had only 8 months...etc. But this is close enough. Say post war, probably 1919).

Thank you all for your wealth of knowledge, made my day!

Math is totally off.

A-Z is 26.
26 x 1000 = 26000
Divided by 11 years (1910-1925 minus 4 war years) = 2,365 guns a year more or less.
V-Z is 5 years x 2365 - 11,700 + 625 = about 12,300 guns.
12,300 divided by 2365 = almost exactly 5.5 years.

So make it late 1919, early 1920. And Ted was pretty much spot on as usual. And the erroneous math turned out to be not so erroneous. (I'm reviewing my 1950's algebra texts as we speak).

Let's see:
26 x 1000 = x
x ÷ (15 - 4) = y
5y + (1000-325) = z
z ÷ y = q
1925 - q = s

Corrections appreciated.

Salut,

Il est impossible de dater un Darne par rapport à son numéro de série.

Un calcul mathématique basé sur la liste fournie par Argo44 ne peut pas fonctionner.

Les entreprises Darne éprouvaient plusieurs milliers de canons dans un labs de temps très court. Ceux-ci étaient stockés, puis utilisés dans leur production.
Avec cette manière de faire, certains canons pouvaient rester des années, voire des décennies avant d’être utilisés.

D’après les marquages, les canons ainsi que l’arme ont été éprouvés après 1923.

Il faudrait que tu mettes une ou deux photos de la clé d’ouverture pour établir si le système de déverrouillage du pied de clé qui permet de sortir la culasse de la table et du brevet de 1921 (ouverture à volet) ou du brevet de 1928 (déverrouillage par arrachement).

A rough translation of Fab’s post:


Hi,

It is impossible to date a Darne by its serial number.

A mathematical calculation based on the list provided by Argo44 cannot work.

The Darne companies tested several thousand guns in a very short period of time. These were stored and then used in their production.
With this way of doing things, some guns could remain for years, even decades, before being used.

According to the markings, the barrels as well as the weapon were tested after 1923.

You would have to put one or two photos of the opening key to establish if the unlocking system of the key foot which allows the breech to be removed from the table and the 1921 patent (shutter opening) or the 1928 patent (breech removed by pulling the key up).

That is the end of Fab’s post.

I’ll try to fill in a couple holes.

The “shutter” that Fab mentions was used on Darne V models for a time, and was the system used on a P grade gun. We don’t get to see many P models in North America, but, they compare nicely to V models. If you can, a good, clear photo from straight above the opening lever, and a photo of the breech removed and the lever work exposed will illustrate exactly what V system your gun uses.

We are in the ballpark on age with your V. Sometimes, that is all you get. Sometimes, you don’t even get that.

If you have a gun with the “SPC” or SPL” designation in the serial number, it can’t be dated at all. You will get some help on a gun with a serial number like that if it is importer marked, and you know what years the importer was doing those importations. The “SPC” and “SPL” prefix were applied to guns ordered with special length short and special length long barrels respectively and were built and numbered out of sequence.

Best,
Ted

I'll get photos today. Thanks to all for the help, quite the mystery with these guns.
Kelly