doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Waterfowl loads in ultra slow mo video

Interesting study of shot string length of various loads, copper coated bismuth, lead, steel, tss and choke effect of length. Video shot with a $300,000 camera. Camera set up at muzzle and other distances up to 40 yards from muzzle. Actual video and analysis minus full gab of videographer appears later in video Gil

So, you tell your wife you need a $300K camera, or does she mind driving the car whilst you…?

Great info, GLS! Fascinating.
JR

That is absolutely mesmerizing. I have been "student" of shotgun ballistics ever since I first patterned one on an old upright car hood some 40-50 years ago. This stuff is really eye opening, and I can't wait too see the next segment in the series.

Thanks, Gil.

Wow! Been reading about this since I was a kid. Can’t wait to see some gauge and choke comparisons with good old lead. Now we can see those 16ga and 28ga patterns that supposedly are shorter and so deadly? Believe it when I see it.

1200 feet per second at 40 yards is 1/10 of a second. A shot string of 10 feet at that velocity would mean the pellets in the back of the string get there 1/40 of a second after the ones in the front. Right? If thinking about how many pellets are going to hit a duck flying 40 mph (how far it will travel in 1/40 of a second)the pattern diameter at 40 yards or the number of pellets in the pattern seems more important. Then, for me, a duck going 40mph at 40 yards is the biggest issue. Check my math. I'm lousy at math.

Very interesting pictures, due to color and resolution. However, I watched films like this as a kid in the 60's. The medium was black and white film and lower resolution but the speed was adequate at that time to see the shot string well. The issue that didn't exist then was the various pellet materials. The fundamental question is the effect of the stringing in the real world. I have always embraced the concept of light charges for bore on a theoretical basis because it minimizes bore scrub. Not because of dispersion per se but it keeps shot loss from the pattern at a minimum. It is interesting to calculate the numerical impact of stringing.

As a basis, assume that you are shooting a dove or duck at 40 yds. Pick a shot velocity of 800 fps. Assume the bird is travelling at 40 mph. Most static pattern studies show that the really even effective zone in most 30" patterns is around 20" in diameter. Call it 2 feet as an approximation.

At these conditions, a 10 foot long shot string crosses the flight path in 1/80 second. A bird at 40 mph would move less than 9" in this time. It would take roughly 2-3/4 seconds to cross the entire pattern. These numbers would indicate that the stringing should have essentially no effect on delivering a lethal charge to the bird. It depends almost exclusively on accurate shooting, adequate shot charge and pellet energy and penetration. This is in a pass shooting situation. At closer distances, with shorter strings and higher shot velocities, it is entirely a non-issue. Performance still depends on the same issues. You wouldn't knowingly hunt with a gun that has a load/choke combination that wouldn't reliably kill the bird. That brings it down to a matter of of reliably shooting within 18" or so of where the bird will be when the shot arrives. George Digweed, who I always considered maybe the best shotgunner who ever lived, was assked what chokes he used in his Beretta for winning a world championship. He said he used full and full for everything on the course (shots from 10 to 50+ yards) so he could see where he was shooting. He followed up with the fact that the chokes were stuck in his gun since they hadn't been out in the years of the competition he had used it.

In other words, use a load with enough pellet energy and a choke with enough pattern density to provide reasonable hits. Then learn to shoot.

You posted while I was writing. Sorry, but I think what I posted is close. ( I am an engineer with a minor in math.)

--EDIT--

Should have read closer. I think what you were asking was the lead required. Based on your numbers that would be 6-7 feet. Actually a little more due to the shot slowing down as it flies.

AGS, Thanks. I used 1200 fps to make the math easy for myself(most loads tested were faster). I was basically saying that (i believe the approximate string length @ 40yds) was 10 feet, and that helped my math too, but the string made little difference to the target. Even it was moving 40mph. Lead is another factor of course but thinking of lead as a number of feet in front of the target is not very practical in real shooting IMHO. Your math said what I want to.

That's not the part of it that fascinates me. I understand that much of the hype about shot string length is moot because of the math you gentlemen have reviewed. What interests me most about it, and what I feel may be most valuable, is the data derived from the tests of different current loads against each other. I will not listen to an argument saying that short shot strings are worse than longer ones. If the tests show definitively that one load has a shot string that is half the length of it's peers I consider that very important to me.