doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com British Boxlocks Explained

Well,,,.i don't think the westly richards was a Anson and deeley unless the 1884 pat.is a A&D

I don’t think anyone here has suggested they could do a “better” video Brent. For what it is, most would acknowledge it’s very well done by two professionals. But Gene’s point about being factual and my point about us not being the target audience are both reasonable comments.

Brent, I could not make a better video. These two really do give a good show and it is fun and is meant to be introductory. And I still have to pick at annoyances and think that with just a little more effort, it could have shed some light on some interesting topics.

For instance claiming that Greener the father and Greener the son were the same person,(beside making the narrator look like an idiot - can you imagine someone combing George Bush 41 and 43?) misses a really neat fable about family conflict, company regeneration and gun history which could have been put into one sentence. Both Greeners were experts and both wrote very important books in their time.

There are numerous examples of these types of errors in their videos. And it would have been nice to have more close up pictures and a more detailed explanation of the difference between the A&D Box Lock and Facile Princeps..something more than "it was hard to work on and had too many small parts." This could have been done in two sentences.

Of course, there is a danger in a pod-cast like this of trying to make too many points at once, at which time it loses its sales value and becomes pedantic. That's perfectly understandable. No matter really since the video probably will sell some guns for Holt's. But, we do know better and for the record it is bad history.

The test of all gun designs is which one got made after the patents expired. The best ones did not always win, but no great designs were ignored and those which were solid and reasonable to make, at a profit, became the bulk of the market. Hence A&D box locks dominate doubles. They, like everything could be made to a price point, and came in all different levels of fit, finish and qualities of materials. Some of the lower grades are not too different from our Stevens or Fox B's and some were so nice that they were just a desirable and finished to a high standard as any Side plate ever made.

I like the mid grade guns which have almost no market at auction right now or some of the hammer guns which have recovered a bit in interest but still can be a value find. My 20 bore Pape hammer gun is a favorite Clays gun right now or my 12 bore Westly Richards, crab joint hammer gun seems to get a lot of action at the trap and skeet fields. A recent purchased Lang swept central fire, shot a decent score at Sporting Clays last month. Swept Central fire shooting is a bit different, but once you shoot a few stations you just forget about it and see the bird and shoot the bird. This Winter I am going to shot a few rounds with a left and right handed crossover double. You never know when you might lose an eye if WWI comes back, so those crossover guns might come back into fashion.

Even thinking about having a club shoot with a different gun to be shot by everybody on every station. Each station would have a gun and shells provided, so station one might be a Hammer gun, station two could be a 32" waterfowler, station 3 has a right shoulder, left eye, cross over double gun, station 4 is a swept central vision gun, Station five will be a left shoulder, right eye crossover gun, station six another hammer gun and station seven another long barreled gun. Skeet shot under old rules, low gun and option of delayed call/release. I did this a few years ago with a combination of pump and doubles which amused and confused most shooters.

That’s who Jonny’s videos are made for. And Simon joins him to hype the next Holt’s auction. Lol[/quote]


Yup....Johnny Come Lately and Simple Simon???

BrentD, maybe not in video, but in print some have put together fairly accurate work on the boxlock.

To be fair, the two presenters clearly state they are presenting the British boxlock. However they do offer it as an attractive buy opportunity and on that score it is prudent to widen the scope and compare with non British products.

Well, there is one boxlock out there which engineering wise runs circles around the Anson-Deeley design. It is the Beretta 626. It is owner serviceable, parts drop ion without hand fitting and are available, at a reasonable price. To give an example, the articulated front trigger of the 626 can be bought for about 50 Euro, and when it arrives it can be fitted with no smoking in etc in a few minutes. The 626 is the most "LUX" alternative, there are othes like the French Robust, whhich are equally serviceable and have affordable spares.

Such comparisons are useful for younger people considering a SXS. It is useful for them to know that there are SXSs that are as serviceable as any modern OU and can be found at similar or lower prices.

cept new gons made after ww2 have no soul...

Soul.... well you tell a 25 year old shooter that he has to pay 3000 dollars for a new V spring on his soulful English boxlock, plus wait for a year for the work to be done and see how far you get in popularising SXS shotguns. pre or post war.

That is about ten fold the going rate. The idea that a well kept old gun is costly to maintain is simply nonsense. Find a sound example, feed it proper ammunition and enjoy.