doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manufrance Simplex

There seems to be a lot of info available on the internet if you are willing to buy old catalogs in bad shape and printed in French, paying $150-200 Euros plus shipping from Europe per book. I wish Cornell would invest in a couple for reproduction, but sales may not be brisk for it.

I managed to copy a couple of pages from the web that are a little informative if you enlarge them.





The first is from a 1935 catalog. By then, the gun had been redesigned into a rather homely style with a thin long action (much like a US hammer gun of the period in profile) with some sort of ejector/breechblock? that sticks up like a piece of plate steel.
The second is from a 1919 catalog and shows one similar to the one I bought. To my mind, it is a much more elegant looking gun (for a single shot), and may have been more robust since many were supposedly chambered for some pretty heavy rifle cartridges. If you enlarge the second picture, you can see a cutaway of the hammer and hammerless models along with a parts list. I suspect the depression in the between years affected their design, marketing and pricing.

I notice that, at least on the pages available, there are no model numbers shown in 1919 but they are in 1935. The 1935 shows models from 50 through 86 and 86S. They almost all appear to have "automatic ejectors" in 1935. I suspect the ejection function was essentially built into the modified action design. I also noted that the Simplex was available in only 12 and 16 and the Junior was in three smaller gauges. No mention of rifles of the period.

As to the listing, you may not have seen the listing because it didn't mention Manufrance. I don't think the seller had a clue about it and simply titled it with the stamping on the barrel. I have seen this several times on some pretty desireable guns I have purchased. I was simply looking for 16 gauge single shot guns when I found it. It had been listed through several cycles with no bids. I have several really classic single shots and was looking for a 16 and 28 to round out the set.

Here is a link I found to an early model rifle for sale in .375 N.E.

https://heldef.ch/manufrance-simplex-a2418/

Here is an early model in 28 Ga. Plain grade but nice.

https://historical.ha.com/itm/long-...mplex-single-shot-shotgun/a/6140-40434.s

I also found an early 12 gague that sold on GI which had a rifled 12 gauge barrel but no sights. I suspect it was one of the few spreader barrel attempts sold over the years.

Looks like this entire model line had a lot of diverse variations over a lot of years. I would think this would be an interesting collecting niche for someone in Europe.

Salut AGS,

Beau fusil qui a l'air d'être dans une grande forme.

D'après la photo 1 on peut déjà le situer avant 1933.
A partir de cette date, la plaque de recouvrement sera positionnée sur le côté gauche de la bascule.

On voit sur la photo 2 que ce fusil a une détente de sûreté qui laisse à penser que c'est un modèle avec éjecteur.
Cette sûreté empêchait tout départ du coup dû à un choc.
La photo 3 explique cela.

Je pense qu'Argo, que je salue, te fera la traduction.

Merci Fab. Rough translation:

Hi AGS

Nice gun which seems to be in fine shape

Per photo 1 it can be dated pre-1933. After this date (1933) the cover plate would be positioned on the left side of the receiver.

Per photo 2 this gun has a safety trigger which makes one think that it is an ejector model
This safety would prevent any discharge from a blow (or shock).
The third photo explains this.

I think that Argo, to whom I send greetings, will help with the translation.

Gene Williams

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AGS, I took a look at the catalog pages you posted. There is little in the way of useful descriptions in these blurbs...they are mostly advertising the various types (with names) of steel in the barrels, engravings ejectors etc. The advertisement for the parts might be interesting. Will wait for more photos.

Here is the French version of "Gunbroker" or "Guns International" or "Guntrader.uk). You can take a look at the Simplex guns for sale there:
https://www.naturabuy.fr/rechercher.php?title=simplex

If you need to look up a gun term, our dictionary here is the best....still doesn't include everything. FAB surprises us sometimes as does Passionlachasse.fr, the French version of BBS.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=595336&page=14

Translation of the parts of the Simplex (cleaned up the photo as much as I could). See part 17 of the interior hammer gun and tell me what that is for our dictionary:



. . . . . . .Parts
. . .Mechanical componnts of
Gun “Simplex” with exterior hammers
1. Bascule - receiver/action
2. Devant – forearm/fore-end
3. Clé-pontet – trigger-guard underlever
4. Verrou - lock
5. Chien - hammer
6. Ressort du chien – hammer spring
7. Guide du ressort du chien – hammer spring guide
8. Détente - trigger
9. Ressort de détente – trigger spring
10. Ressort de la clé-pontet – trigger-guard underlever spring
11. Extracteur - extractor
12. Ressort d’extracteur – extractor spring
13. Percuteur – striker, firing pin
14. Ressort du percuteur – striker/firing pin spring
15. Vis-bouchon du percuteur – firing pin cap screw

. . . . . . .Parts
. . .Mechanical componnts of
Gun “Simplex” with interior hammers
1. Bascule - receiver/action
2. Devant – forearm/fore-end
3. Clé-pontet – trigger-guard underlever
4. Verrou - lock
5. Chien - hammer
6. Ressort du chien – hammer spring
7. Guide du ressort du chien – hammer spring guide
8. Détente - trigger
9. Ressort de détente – trigger spring
10. Ressort de la clé-pontet – trigger-guard underlever spring
11. Extracteur - extractor
12. Ressort d’extracteur – extractor spring
13. Percuteur – striker, firing pin
14. Ressort du percuteur – striker/firing pin spring
15. Vis-bouchon du percuteur – firing pin cap screw
16. Plaque de recouvrement – cover plate
17. Pièce d’armement – Arming part or charging part or probably cocking sear?? Never have quite figured this out – someone look at the drawing and tell me what it is.

You can see it bearing upon the striker (or hammer) in fig. 2 of the sectioned views of the guns.

It appears to be a cocking dog... a part of the cocking mechanism that rotates the striker (or hammer) back to engagement with the trigger sear when the trigger guard/cocking lever is opened.

However, the parts list description, "pièce d' armament", appears to translate to "piece of armament". I suppose another term would be "Gun Part". That narrows it down significantly.

Thanks Keith. I had a similar term in the dictionary with a question mark:
Pièce d'armurerie - piece of firearms manufacture ???

I speculated that it had to do with arming or charging or cocking based on this term:
Levier d'armement - Charging or arming lever as on the M-16.

But from the look of the drawing, I'd reckon it must be a "cocking sear." However, I previously had that term as follows:
Gâchette interruptrice - safety sear; cocking sear

There are often several French words for the same term. Maybe Fab can help.

Fab, le term Francais "Pièce d’armement" tel qu'il apparaît dans le catalogue ci-dessus, est-ce la même chose que le mot "gâchette interruptrice?"

I have a few more pictures to post now. From the previous discussions, there is an 8 stamped on all the stock, action and barrel. I suspect this is an earlier version of the later Model 86. I did determine from some of the sources and the copy of Godio's book I picked up that this gun has been doubled proofed at the Manufrance factory. It is fitted with the optional Hercule barrels (the lowest class of them but still rather expensive for the time) and the safety trigger. I forgot to try the action with snap caps but I suspect they are automatic ejectors.

One thing I haven't pinned down is the date. The serial number data has been removed from the Gournet site, and I would like to see a copy if anyone has it.

My pictures are no better than the ones from the auction site, but I will say that the gun really does look much better in person than any of the triggers.

The only flaw I found was a small repaired crack in the bottom of the wrist that seems secure. I plan to pin this with a 1/8" rod and epoxy across the grain. I will install it to a point below the surface and plug it with a dot of black epoxie (shows less than a brown).

The barrels are smooth and shiny inside. The insides are very clean with no wear at all. Use wear seems very minimal. Given the overall appearance, I have a hard time believing the barrels have been honed, but they do measure .669 which is a little large for a 16. The barrel internal diameter is not marked so I can't really say. Choke is .025. Barrel wall thicknesses are ridiculously thick as many St Etienne guns are. They are .060-.070 behind the chokes, .08-.12 in the rear barrel, .15 at the forcing cone and .25 chamber walls. LOP is 13-3/4", DAC 1-3/8" and 2-5/8" DAH. Chamber is 65mm and barrel length is 700mm. Weight is 5#-9oz. The sight picture is very good. It should be a lot of fun on a lazy dove day.

Besides the stock pin, I plan to clean the barrel in and out, steam out some of the stock blemishes and rejuvenate the finish, then call it good. It should be fine to go.

Welcome comments on the pictures.

These two didn't make it in. Maybe a size limit.

I'd best let FAB comment on the proof marks (I don't know what the double "E" in a diamond means).

There is no model number but the arrow proof is by Manufrance factory themselves for finished guns sanctioned by the Saint Etienne proof house after I think 1926? FAB already said the gun was 1933 or earlier so 1926-1933. Most of that imprint is advertising of a sort.

Cal .16 normal = 16 gauge, 65mm chambers (2 1/2").

That choke is pretty tight .0024. - same as on both barrels of my 1926 "Wonder." I am told the traditional French stock of the era had a LOP of 13 1/4"...no idea whether that is true or not.

The serial number 74607 might help a bit though those records were lost and Mournetas' charts for dating the Ideal and Robust concentrated on model numbers. Have no idea what might be in his book on the Simplex.

Anyway a fun investigation and a neat gun. I might have to think about going back to a single barrel. I actually seem to shoot them better.