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Joined: Mar 2010
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Sidelock
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Sidelock

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Originally Posted by 9372
Hello Fuhrmann!
Thank you very much!
Bullets type 72U-my friend in Germany has a custom mold made for these bullets. He lives at south west corner near the french border. Maybe he can make some for xou if you like.
Yes, its ex amnesty firearm, so it wasnt registered at the police for who knows how many decades and how many different rounds /9,3x72r and loadings been shot through it. Still is very solid, if I put sheet of paper 0,06mm thick in the action, I cant close the gun. I cant see any real marks at the beginning of the rifling, I guess it was just polished till would accept 9,3x72r cartridge-this is why factory sellier bellot is flying fast from it-668m/s its at the max speed in load data at 2000bar.Here is what I found on the forum: Crown over B denotes proof in the final state. Until the 1912 rules change, the voluntary proof w/ the load data was an additional cost, so it wasn't employed all the time.
I have 1906 drilling were shotgun barrels are nitro proof and rifle one is not. Additional cost of proof kind of explaining it. Tell rifles been made for 40years 1896-1936 and I dont think so they been change appart for safety and také diwn/easy change of barrel Bolt. Been made in 6,5x58r too and there is max pressure I think 2800bar. Sturdy little rifles.
Its just a picture of the ammo box made in Czechoslovakia in Povazske strojárne, in week or two Ill get some rounds from Dorfner and maybe some old Czechoslovakian cartridges, I'll test them and let you know. On the old boxes is marked powder Sm 5, 2,59g with 12,5g bullet.
Here is one BP load from an old catalouges. Says 2,7g BP with 12,3g lead bullet, at 25m =400m/s 102 mkg.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
I read somewhere that original nitro load was cca 1700fps with 12,5g bullet.

Hello 9372

I live in Switzerland near Basel, close to the German border. Your friend may not be far away. I will send you a private message with my address. Much appreciated if you pass it to your friend.

The S&B website says v0 is 611 m/s for 9,3x72R cartridges. I think the same, the chamber probably was reamed or polished until a 9,3x72R cartridge fit it. But no room for leade and proper release of the bullet. Your problem may now be a very wide chamber for the 9,3x57R/360 cartridge.
Good that this rifle is very sturdy!

I have some hunting magazines of the time 1898 till 1912. There was a lot of discussion regarding nitro powders and the "shooting loose of break action guns". Some hunters preferred to stay with black powder - that is why 9,3x72R, 9,3x82R etc were actually developed.

So I understand you have only the pictures in your hand, not the ammo box and cartridges?
Funny thing is that the cartridges are stamped "Egestorff...". A German factory, headstamp was used before WWI.
Beware, old ammunition may be already reloaded, not original from the factory.
Thanks for the data!

fuhrmann

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Thank you Mike! Im learning something new by every new post here! Yes, Im looking forward to test it, I'll get them around 7th of january. Its says 2,59g of Sm5, interesting, 9,3x82r made by same company was loaded with 2,8g of Sm5 with heavier bullet type 94 - 14,7g
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

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I sent you his email address.
The bore in the beginning is wider maybe.380,narrowing slowly to cca.365-6 at the muzzle.
Those empty cases on photo are different than those live rounds in the little ammo box. Cases are from 360 D, maybe I'll buy one just to take measurements.

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9372,
You didn't say whether you are a hunter or not, but since you photographed the rifle on an animal skin rug, I thought you might be. If you are and intend to hunt with the 9,3x57 you will need to use jacketed bullets to do so. I believe your best choice for these is the S&B 193 grain, .366" bullets. The RWS version of this bullet is .364" and the Norma (pulled from ammo) version was .365". Since your rifle's chamber may have been, polished to a larger bore diameter, a couple thousandths of difference in bullet diameter may affect the accuracy. Along with this, I think for general use you would be best served by using 9.3x72R cases shortened to the "trim to" length of the 9.3x57R. This would give you a reliable source of economical good quality cases, primed with modern and available primers. I understand gun laws have significantly changed since I left Germany in 1982 and you should determine if you need to change the headstamp on some or all the cases to 57, instead of 72. The case necks may not need to be turned or reamed to account for shortening since the chamber may have been polished out. Cast bullets can be used for general shooting and can be sized to precisely fit your barrel. Again, I am not sure of the latest legal requirements concerning casting your own bullets where you live. We are pretty free here, for the most part, and when I was under the Nato Status of Forces Agreement and the US Forces Hunting Agreement, we had more freedom than citizens have now. Please don't allow my advice to cause you trouble with the legal authorities. The latest version of "Wiederladen" will likely provide advice concerning available powders,etc., at least for the 9.3x72R which may serve as a guide.
Mike

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[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Thank you Der Ami!
Yes I do Hunt, shot this boar with Tell and factory sellier bellot 9,3x72r 2 days ago.
In a week I'll get originál factory rounds 9,3x57r/360,so I'll do some testing, hopefully I'll find vihtavuori N135 or 130,120. I allready tried sb 193gr bullets, makarov 95grn bullets, lead cast type 72U 227gr,but I only have S062 lovex powder and it is just to slow. Ánd yes, I did cut down few x72r cases and reloaded them. Thank you.
Martin

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The barrel twist is one turn per barrel long 62,5cm, so around 1:24,6 inch, I cant find any info about this twist rate in 9,3mm bore and for what bullet weights/speed it meant to be. Range of bullets for 9,3x57r/360 were between 124gr to 227gr..Any ideas? Thank you

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Sidelock
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Originally Posted by 9372
The barrel twist is one turn per barrel long 62,5cm, so around 1:24,6 inch, I cant find any info about this twist rate in 9,3mm bore and for what bullet weights/speed it meant to be. Range of bullets for 9,3x57r/360 were between 124gr to 227gr..Any ideas? Thank you

There are a number of on-line calculators for Greenhill's formula. Most of them use known inputs to calculate the proper twist. A bit of fiddling and one can use them to work towards any of the variables.

Example => https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/AndrewBudd/Greenhill+Formula+for+Optimal+Rifling+Twist+Rate

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Hoot 4570!
Thank you very much, very helpfull site, brilliant!

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I have collected a bunch of twist calculators. Some use only twist and bullet length, some use velocity as well.

For the types of rifles I shoot, it is generally accepted that the Greenhill constant of 150 needs to be downsized to about 130 or 125. I have found that 125 seem to do the best job of predicting the ragged edge of stability in slower BPCR rifles with lead bullets.

So using the numbers you supply and guessing a velocity of 1900 fps, I get
Greenhill (150) -> 0.81" for max bullet length
Greenhill (130) -> 0.70"
Greenhill (125) -> 0.675"

Carr -> 0.70"
Crawley -> 0.83"
Lilja -> 1.035"
Charley Dell -> 0.83"

Obviously, Lilja sticks out like a sore thumb for being different from the others, but I suspect that is because it is probably developed for very fast, very point, boattailed, jacketed bullets.

If it was me, I would look at these numbers and figure I want to be under 0.8" long. Probably around 0.75 would suffice for me. If I was planning to shoot very far (>500 m), I would go shorter yet.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Man is a lot of good info. I'm just about ready to start reloading 9.3x72r for my stalking rifle

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