doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What is the "X" for

I posted these two images in another thread asking the question what is the X for.
In the photographs is a large Norfolk shoot peg selector with numbers one to ten plus an extra token with an "X". The full question was what time of the year was the selector used and what did the "X" signify. These Victorian shoot peg selectors are possibly not used a lot today because there are not that many very large estates in the UK now.





Possibly posting it here may have some results, Oh you wont find the answer in "Downton Abby" yes it is a Brit shooting Trivia question and I do know the answer.

I'll hazard a guess. Could the X indicator have been used by the host, so that whoever drew it would receive some special honor, or place?

Having participated in many drawings for stands on dove shoots I find the set charming, in it's quality. Definitely a carryover from the mindset of the wealthy class of Englishmen. At dove shoots around here the more common means is to draw a poker chip from a little bucket that is passed around by the host, on which numbers have been written with a black "magic marker". If a deck of cards invites the Devil to the premises, what say ye of poker chips?

Shooting in Scotland, I've drawn peg selectors like that. But can't recall ever having more than 8 guns. Sometimes there is a back gun. Could the X represent the back gun?

Can't accurately speak of playing cards or poker chips and driven bird shoots in Limeyland, Stan. I was thinking along the same lines as you with the X marker designating a special place in the lineup. About 10 years ago at our former pheasant club (planted birds-tower shoots on Wintertime Saturdays- we had a "money bird" option--the trapper tied a blaze orange ribbon to the leg of a bird, picked at random from the bird box inside the tower (aprox 45 feet above ground level) and it was tossed at option- the gun who downed it won the $ in the pot. I tied with another shooter, it was a high towering rooster, feathers flew, we both apparently shot at the same time, and the "winner" was determined by the high card drawn at random from the deck. I won the pot with the Queen of Spades- also the "jinx" card in Hearts I believe. I like cribbage and euchre, stopped playing poker when "Texas Hold-Em" took over. I always liked 5 card stud, and also 7 card stud--not today.. When you are dove shooting in "Jawja" do you rotate assigned positions, or do you stay where you are until the shoot is over?? Holiday best to you, Ruth and all the Hillis gruppen. Foxie

We stay on the stand drawn until we get a limit. Then, anyone else can move to your stand, if they'd like to. Usually they don't, though.

Stanton your first attempt was extremely close, But no coconut! The real explanation is this, on very large estates where this peg selector came from in fact it was made on the estate with the "X" being the give away and not just having numbers only. Back in Victorian Edwardian tines such large estates had a good number of "Tennent Farmers" with the tradition at that time was to have a Boxing Day Tennent's Shoot and that is where the "X" came in. Depending on how many Tennent Farmer's where invited and this estate could handle up to ten. The keepers would be instructed to lay out ten shooting stand pegs, then either the number 5 or 6 token' was removed from the draw either numbers being the centre of the lay out giving the best shooting position usually and the "X token added. When the peg draw was done the lucky person with the "X" would get a good peg position also on the estate where this peg set came from the lucky Tennent would also receive a hamper containing seasonal luxury foods I do like to think it was a Harrods hamper plus a bottle of Sloe Gin. The same form of selection method was also used for Keeper and good friend shoots. Alas a lot of these large estates now have been broken up and sold off putting an end to this tradition though I have been told that on some Royal Estates something similar still goes on.

Ernie.

The hamper of seasonal luxury foods sounds like a reasonable explanation. But giving the individual who pulls the X token a 5 or 6 peg in a 10 gun line doesn't really make much sense. Since pegs are always rotated, whoever draws the 5 or 6 peg is only going to have that peg for the first drive. While the middle pegs are considered the best, everyone will end up in the middle at some point during the course of the shoot.

Thanks, Ernie. Those details are interesting to me, as I have done much the same thing with friends, when I would put a special friend, or guest, in a spot on a dove shoot that I knew, from scouting, would be a "warm corner". No gift baskets, or hampers, though. It's fun hearing about how the gentry did such things across the pond.

There is a "dove club" on a very large plantation that adjoins my land, to the east. The membership is closed at a set number of members. In order to become a member one must get on a waiting list with a partner. Individuals are not allowed to join. The annual membership for each "team" of two is about $4000, as I recall. They are guaranteed eight dove shoots a year/season for that. If one of the "team members" cannot shoot one day, the other member can invite a guest, free of charge. I am not a member but have been invited in that manner a few times. When the poker chips are drawn to assign the stands, one chip is drawn per "team". The team gets the stand that matches the number on that chip, and the next higher numbered one to it. This allows the partners to shoot near each other and adds to the social aspect of it. Last time I was invited my host told me to draw the chip. The field location had already been announced and my partner knew how the stands were laid out, and which numbers were the best stands. He whispered to me to draw a high number. I chuckled and told him I'd try. I drew blind, of course, and drew a high numbered stand. My partner smiled and said I had done good. Indeed! We had the best shooting on the field that afternoon and I soon limited with my 30" Fox AE 16 ga. It was a memorable afternoon. Luck of the draw, as they say.

In the group I associate with the X would be the one that had to clean the birds! Always good to understand the traditions of a more formal shoot. Strictly rough shooting for me.

Well Mr Brown you now know the Minuti but you did not attempt to answer the question, though come forth with rules after the answer was posted. Lets get this straight the person known to be a Lord who owns an Estate consisting of many many thousands of acres including the farms that keep producing money for his coffers, he will run the shoot day the way they want to and I am sure he would tell your good self to go away in very short jerky movements ending with an off at the same time explaining that you could put tour rules where the sun dont shine also if you require any help his Estate Manager or one of his four game keepers would give you a hand.
Well Mr brown I will now put your good self down as a person who is given an answer then attempts to expand on the answer in an effort to give the aura of knowledge, as we all know the blank piece of paper is the hardest to start with.