doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two inch Twelve gauge

Drew, here are the first two pages of the pamphlet with no load info. The pamphlet appeared in Diggory's online magazine. Here’s my Hellis. Someone bit the advertisement almost 90 years ago with a more recent bite 3 years ago by me. Is it a “practical”gun? Of course not. Fortunately, I have flat of RST’s and plenty of powder, hulls, wads, etc. to reload with some recipes reportedly well below SAAMI limits by several thousand psi. I’m not a high volume shooter as I don’t shoot clays and my shooting is for game birds only. At 75 years old, just how many seasons of shooting the short hull guns are left on my calendar? In the hunting of game birds for the table, a “practical” shotgun is almost a contradiction in terms. As Chuck H. observed years ago, once one passes a KFC on the way to hunt birds for the table, all vestiges of practicality sail out of the truck’s window.
As for another practical consideration, I just put down a deposit on a 3 week old female French Brittany to learn to hunt doodles and quail from my MuttPak's American Brittanys Abby, 12.5 years old, and Willa, 9. Gil

Congratulations on the dog to be! I'm also in line for a new pup, but Gus is going to have to handle his 15th season alone again.

Wowsa!

I would be honored to reload for that one.

Well done Gil!

Were Charles Lancaster's "Pygmies" the forerunner of the 2" chambered shotgun?
The shells were 2"



Lancaster went another direction with his 12-20.

came upon this while looking for something else...

http://dismalriverarmory.com/webleyscott212gaug.html

I thought pygmies were a brand name like doughty farkillers etc.but for 2inch shell.

Challenger shortshells run about 6600 and they are cheap. I used them last year bird hunting with no issues.

Never heard of them. Where do you find them?

Canadian maker. From Quebec.


https://www.munitionschallenger.com/index.html

They occasionally will do a run of 2 1/2" shells for a retailer who will place a big enough order. I bought some last year from Ellwood Epps. (From whence comes Ellwood Blues (Dan Aklroyd's alter ego))

Burrard's The Modern Shotgun, Vol. II "The Cartridge", 1955 3rd Edition has very little about 2" guns or cartridges, and no mention of Lancaster's Pygmies
p. 157 lists standard pressures for cartridges
12g 2 3/4" Service 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq Service 3.1 tons = 9,296 psi; Max. 3.9 tons = 11,984 (by his conversion to piezo number)
12g 2 1/2" 1 1/16 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. Service 2.7 tons = 7,952 psi; Max. 3.5 tons = 10,640 psi
12g 2" 7/8 oz. 2.36 Dr. Eq. (26 grains of 33 grain = 3 Dr.Eq. powder) Service 2.25 tons = 6,440 psi; Max. 3.0 = 8,960 psi
Vol. III also has very little
p. 217
"The 2-inch 12-bore...was originally introduced as an alternative to the 20-bore and fired the standard 2 1/2-inch 20-bore shot charge of 3/4 ounce. Experience proved that this shot charge was too light. So the shot charge was increased to the standard 2 1/2-inch 16-bore weight of 7/8 ounce."

SO this would support Brent in that 2" loadings at some point after 1934 were changed to lower oz. & pressures than the standard 12g 2 1/2" load, and Burrard's numbers would provide a good guide regarding load pressures.

Bill's Titewad load is approaching, but not reaching, the max., but as Brent stated, Boyle's Law would suggest higher pressures if the test barrel had a 2" chamber