doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two inch Twelve gauge

Vic Venters is looking into it Gil, and has connections with the Proof House.

1906 Gun Trade handbook : -

WALSRODE -
12G 2" 26-28 grains 1oz shot short case

12G 2 1/2" 29 grains 1 1/8oz Walsrode Co.'s special cases

16G 2 I/2" 27 grains 1oz W....... Co sp.... cases

20G 2 1/2" 25 grains 3/4 to 7/8oz W......Co sp ... cases

EMPIRE POWDER - 1906 - No 12G 2" case load specification

BALLISTITE (Sporting) - 1906 - 12G 2" case ** - 24 grains - 1oz shot ** The 2" Parvo case is made specially without the cone base.

Thank you!

Note Alfred Nobel's “Ballistite” was the first Dense Smokeless, introduced in 1887, patented in 1888, then “Sporting Ballistite” (for shotgun shells) was patented in 1889, but not released to the trade by Nobel’s Explosive Co. until 1895.
24 grains = 3 Dr. Eq.

Strange that the proof House failed to respond. May be worth another try. Sadly, my contacts there are no longer with us. Luckily here in England Eley still make them although now in plastic cases and also Lyalvale Express although I tend not to use the latter as they have plastic wads. When I load them I tend to use the Vectan AS powder. Red Dot is o.k. but I have had the odd 'blooper' with it for some strange reason. Lagopus.....

Two 2" action flats courtesy of L.D. at Westley Richards Agency, U.S.A.

The first is one of a pair H&H Royal Centenary gun made in 1935; with the standard 1925-1954 proof marks, for 1 oz.

In 1935, the Proof House determined the 2” “cartridge loaded with full 2 1/2” charge...proof of the 2” gun should be identical with the 2 1/2”’.
I don't have the pre-1954 12g 1 oz. standard or max. service pressures



The second is a H&H Royal Twelve-Two, completed in 1934, just before WR changed the name of the 2" guns. The gun was rebarreled in London in 2006 with CIP Standard (Crowed STD) proof.



The CIP Standard 2" pressures are same as 2 1/2" and 2 3/4"
Maximum Average (Service) Pressure 740 BAR = 10,733 psi;
Maximum Statistical Individual Pressure 850 BAR = 12,328 psi
Mean PROOF Pressure 930 BAR = 13,489 psi

Drew,
I'm guessing those are not Skimin and Wood actions. But I certainly could be wrong. Do you know for sure, one way or the other?

Rebadged S&W by C. Hellis & Sons. Note J.A. (Joseph Asbury) initials on barrels, just ahead of flats:

BrentD, FYI, the two flats that Drew posted are not on S&W A&D actions; both examples are from best-quality Holland & Holland bar-action sidelocks. (Note the chopper-lump barrels.)

I'm trying to get pics of the flats for a Dominion back-lock H&H 2" gun. If anyone would like a PDF of a short article I wrote on 2" guns I would be happy to email them, and you would be free to upload it here -- a task beyond my Ned Luddish technological capabilities.

For those who were at the Southern, Westley Richards had the pair of Holland "Royal" Centenary guns -- magnificent. They are also on WR's website under pre-owned guns.

I would be love to read your article if you could post it to brentd@iastate.edu. I'm not sure if I can post a PDF on this site or not, but I'll give it a shot.

I have seen the H&H pair on the Westley website. They are, indeed, magnificent. And a bit beyond my mad-money ceiling.