doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two inch Twelve gauge

Thanks Gil & Vic

This is a pressure table published in the U.S. in 1934, based on the 1925 Rules of Proof. No 2"



The proof and service pressures in the 1954 Rules did not exceed, and some were less, than the 1925 Rules.

I may have answered my own question, but confirmation by the experts would be appreciated now that 2" eyes are fixed on this thread. I posted photos of the below gun in June of 2020 with inquiry as to who made it. The only writing on it is "J.W. Lewis" on the breech end of the rib. A photo appears of the small engraved "J.W. Lewis". His name isn't recognized in the tomes of British makers. The rib is an unusual style, convex the length of the 28" barrels. The gun is a BLE. I have thought it to be a rebadged S&W, but with an unknown badge. Confirmation that it is probably an S&W is the serial number on the trigger guard. 4016. The Hellis's serial number depicted a few responses up, is 4105. Despite not having the case size caution typical on the ribs of an S&W double, the action appears to me to have been made by S&W. That S&W made guns for the trade is widely known. The pin and screw placement differs from my Hellis, but the Hellis is an extractor gun and the "Lewis?" is ejector. There are no other serial number markings on the metal work other than on the trigger guard. All metalwork is serial numbered on the Hellis.
If anyone has a better grasp of who made the gun, I'd love to hear it. Gil

This is the PDF that Vic sent me. I'm experimenting here with a delivery method that I'm not very familiar with. May take a few tries. The top link works for me, but may not work for anyone else. Let me know.

https://iastate.box.com/s/2fdo6913q18ov2x22b4mmz0zx8gz4rbb

Courtesy of KDGJ

1933 2” Westley Richard. WR action; not Skimmin & Wood. 7/8" proof.



1935 H&H 2” Royal, rebarreled in 1962 by H&H. 1 oz. proof.




These are early guns. Per Bro. Venters Skimmin & Wood completed their first 2" 12 in 1930, "The 20th Century Gun", regulated for 3/4 oz.


What we need now is a post-1954 gun so we know to what TONS the gun was proved

Thanks Drew.

Ken

Don't know how I missed this thread
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=355905

p. 4
"I currently own a 2" Churchill 'Imperial' SLE that was proofed at 1-1/8 oz. out of the London Proof House. Sold new in 1954 with the typical XXV 25" barrels and choked .015" and .017"."

That 1 1/8 oz. would be under the 1925 Rules. Post-1954 the proof would be in TONS and chamber length 50 mm

From the IGC. 'Skimin' is as posted

The firm of Skimin & Wood was established in about 1920 at 31 Loveday Street. Samuel Skimin had previously been works manager st Holloway & Naughton.
The firm was mainly manufacturers for the trade in the UK, but they developed an export trade with firms in Australia and New Zealand and elsewhere in the world.

Between 1920 and 1925 the firm moved to the Enterprise Works, 52 Cliveland Street.

In 1929 the firm bought Holloway & Naughton (and J & W Tolley who had been bought by Holloway & Naughton in 1916) and moved into their premises at 10, 12, & 14 Vesey Street. In that year they also bought Charles Osborne & Co Ltd.

In 1930, in the UK and the USA, Samuel Skimin undertook the marketing of the first commercially made 2 inch chambered 12 bore shotgun. It was named "The 20th Century Gun" and weighed 5 pounds.

In 1932 the 10 Vesey Street premises were occupied by R B Rodda & Co Ltd, and Skimin & Wood, Holloway & Naughton and J & W Tolley traded from 12 & 14 Vesey Street (Charles Osborne & Co Ltd appear to have ceased trading but survived in name until 1957).

In about 1945 Skimin & Wood bought the business of Standard Sporting Guns Ltd.

In 1957 Skimin & Wood moved to Little Shadwell Street.

In 1964 the firm was bought by F J Wiseman & Co Ltd who moved them to their premises at 3 Price Street. In 1986 F J Wiseman moved to 262 Walsall Road, Bridgtown, Cannock, Staffordshire.


No pic of the barrel flats
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ide-by-side-shotgun.cfm?gun_id=101902089

I have not heard that anyone as failed to get into the PDF that I posted above for Vic. That being the case, I guess everyone is getting in okay.

So, here is a second document he sent me discussing issues at the proof houses with the 2" 12b

https://iastate.box.com/s/p3mbyg1z69n0u104count0mwaec71ky5

Drew, I read somewhere that Skimin and Wood records were lost - perhaps just their early, prewar records. But have you found any information about people that may have records of these guns?

I find it interesting that just a few SW actions have the 2 inch case warning on the right barrel instead of the rib. My Jeffrey (ssn (369XX) is that way as well. I would be surprised if that didn't have something to do with age, but were they earlier or later, hard to say without getting down to the details.


A strong warning about this gun. I was really hot on it for a while. However, I got some more details about it and ruled it out. This gun was bought by the shop owner while in England. He has never fired it. It was punched out to 2.75" chambers and reproofed in something like 1991 (maybe wrong on that detail, but it's ballparkish). The new proof was at a pretty high pressure level, but I don't recall what it was.

I would not touch one of these guns with a chamber like that, but the owner argued that it would be fine because it was been proofed 30ish yrs ago, and someone must have shot it and survived. I did not think that was sufficiently strong logic for my purposes.

Also, I think he has raised the price ~10% recently. Any gun I express interest in, suddenly gets a big inflationary boot. The Lang/SW gun at Dismal River Armory is another. Personally, I think both were well overvalued at their earlier prices.

From 2008 Brent
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=117121
I spoke with Frank Wiseman (84 years young at the time) about 5-6 years ago about another shotgun I thought might be a Skimin & Wood. Frank informed me in typical Brit understatement, "You know, we had a War." Meaning the Skimin & Wood records were lost to bombing during WW2.