doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGuns For Sale @ doublegunshop.com Installing Soft Recoil pads

A friend asked me to install a really soft recoil pad for him. I've done plenty of regular pads but this is the first soft one I have done. I'm planning to put it in the freezer for a couple hours before I start shaping it. Does that sound about right? thanks, Gil

Softest I've done is KickEez pads. I use a big disc sander with the jig and never had a problem. But, freezing it might help.

Good luck. Please post back what you learned.

If it is a cervellati pad they require finer grit sandpaper on the belt sander, 400 grit I think, but I am on the road and do not have instructions saved to my iPad. I do remember going out and getting different sandpaper belts for the job.

I know for sure it requires very different grit than a kicker installation

I bought a pretty trick bore gauge that deserved better than the styrofoam and cardboard it was shipped in.
Prior to cutting, it went sub-zero.
Frozen foam is your friend.

If it is a really soft pad, and he has an inertia trigger, stand by to try to fix that, as well.

Don’t ask me how I know.

Best,
Ted

Stanton,
Could you possibly send me a picture of the mechanism you describe here. I would like to install a couple of pads on guns I own. Also, as to the jig, where can I obtain one.

Sure, Perry. I'll snap a couple of pics tomorrow in the shop and try to get them on here tomorrow evening.

Brownells sells jigs

And for basically no money, you can make one as well. Which is what I did. Lots of options.

These are the exact two tools I use to grind pads to fit, Perry.

The links and descriptions are probably better than my pics would be, but I'll be glad to snap a few if there's any thing you'd like to know that's not shown on these links, or in the accompanying videos.

The jig ....... https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007111917/?pid=658338

The disc sander ........ https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-1-14-hp-disc-sander-58862.html

Some craftsmen prefer other style jigs. There is a pendulum type that has received much praise, but every time I've tried to order one of them they're always out of stock. The Miles-Gilbert has worked perfectly well for me thus far.

Just build your own pendulum style. It's quite easy to do and works great. You can see many videos of people using this style of jig. This is one of the best, but there are many others.

Thank you Stanton. I will have one on order from Midway today!! I already have the sander from Harbor Freight. Thanks also to Brent, but the video you attached is the making of a leather covered pad and shaping the pad is not shown. Interesting anyway!!

That is the same setup I have the one stan uses I have been using it for over 30 years works great simple effective

Jigs? I only use them for leather covered pads, otherwise I grind all my pads installed on the gun using a belt sander. Learned that way back in school and I have always gotten my best results with that method.

How do you protect the stock? Tape?

Yes, blue masking tape works well. Take it down to the tape, as close as you can without hitting the stock on the belt sander, then polish the remainder with emery cloth on a file, a hobby stick, etc., again using tape to protect the stock. Careful work and you get a nice clean fit.

I'm not that brave I use the jig

You are braver and a bit more practiced than some of us, I suspect.

You just skip the leather part. There really isn't any difference otherwise. Works for me at least. This video and one other were all I needed to get started doing my own pads.

That video was eye-opening. Merci, Professeur.

Not so much bravery as just how I was taught, second nature at this point.

One trick I have that I really like, and that I "stumbled onto" by accident, is to glue one inch strips of emery cloth to both sides of a wooden paint stirrer stick, like the ones they give you when you buy a gallon of house paint. The ones I get from Lowe's are exactly the same width as the 1" emery rolls. You then have a tool that handles like a file, but in any grit you choose to make them. Very useful, and you'll be surprised how long they last.

Now with all this conversation about pads and jigs, etc, you might know that Midway has the jigs on backorder!! I guess I will look at Brownells.

Perry;

with a couple decades of experience in using one of the 12 inch disc sanders, I offer you this information.

Not all the 12 inch disc sanders are created equal --specifically in the amount of runout of the disc and vibration of the combination disc and motor. When you receive the sander check the runout of the disc and if it is not within a very few thousands of an inch carry it back return it and get another (check it out as well). Same with vibration--return it if vibration is too much. My 12 inch disc is made of cast iron and I think the new one are made of aluminum. Excessive runout of the disc will not allow you to grind the pad a few thousands of an inch at a time which you need. Of course if you have a metal lathe with more than 12 inch swing you can true the runout of the disc, which is what I did on mine to get the runout to Zero and I also drilled balance holes in the back of the disc to get the vibration to near Zero. The balance was accomplished by taping weights(brass flats) to outside of disc and turning it (disc and motor) by hand for balance and then drilling shallow holes with a flat tip milling cutter behind the taped weight area to take away metal equal to the weight of the taped on weights.

I use my 12 inch disc for making leather covered recoil pads and when I need to final finish the pad taking only 2-3 thousands of an inch at a time, I switch the motor off and as the disc is coasting down at about half speed or less I then begin to grind the 2-3 thousands of inch away from the pad--I usually have to use the switch off method several times to super finish the sides and top of the pad. Of course the 12 aluminum disc will not have the long lasting coast down speed that a cast iron disc will have. Here is where a AC or DC variable speed motor would be ideal.

Rig you shop vacuum cleaner pipe to the opening in the base of the 12 inch disc sander.

Set the table angle to the face of the disc at less than 90 degrees (experiment) in order to have the angle of the sides and top of the pad after grinding will have a graceful angle that duplicates the same gentle and graceful angle of the buttstock---this is a very important technique in order for the pad to look perfect when fitted to the buttstock.

Use fine grit sanding discs not coarse ones---you will need to decide by experiment what grit works for you best.

Finally, I will say that with the advancement in belt sander design in the last 10 years I believe a belt sanders now are the likely better to use for general recoil pad work (non leather covered). Knife makers have created a whole new world of belt sander designs.

The best recoil pad craftsman I ever saw was back in the 1960's, who used a 6 inch rubber sanding disc and taped the buttstock with cellophane tape and ground the pad on the buttstock setting all the angle by his eye and experience and when he was finished the buttstock had no marks at all on it. He would have done recoil pad jobs on hundreds of Browning A-5's back then, maybe even a thousand. He cut all the angles on the buttstock to get the LOP, pitch and so forth correct with a home made wooden miter box that he called his "money box".

The jig I have is BSquare pad jig very simple idea

Thanks for that helpful information on using the 12" disc sanders for recoil pads, Stephen. Mine is cast iron, and runs with no vibration, and definitely heavy ... at nearly 60 pounds weight. I have always used a big shop vac to help with the grinding dust. It still won't get it all, but it helps a lot. I put my sander up on the workbench when I'm doing a pad, and have an old bedsheet under it and hanging behind it. That catches almost all the rest of the rubber dust that the vacuum doesn't get. There is a hole made into the base of mine for a vacuum hose. I wonder it there is any such thing on a big belt sander.

I've never checked the runout on the sanding disc. I'll do that next time I replace the adhesive sanding disc itself.

I find myself wondering how your suggestion of setting the table at less than 90 degrees would work with the type jig I use. When you set the angles for the toe and heel with the adjustment screws you are already creating the exact angle that exists on the top and bottom of the stock. It would seem that adding more to it by not having the table at 90 degrees would "throw that off", if you understand what I mean. I think next time I do one I will grind most of the heel and toe angles with the bed at 90, then try reducing it a bit for the sides of the pad, because the jig does not allow for an adjustment for the slight angle on the sides of the stock. Very interesting idea, thanks again.

Stan;

That the" jig does not allow for an adjustment for the slight angle on the sides of the stock" (as you point out) is what I attempt to compensate with the slight adjustment to the table of the 12 inch disc sander. Let me say more about this adjustment of the table. Since I only do leather covered recoil pads having just a tiny bit(and I mean tiny) more angle at the top and the toe of the pad helps in the final appearance of the pad after it is covered in leather. One must pull the leather tightly at the toe and the heal in order to get it to stretch as it is glued to the back of the pad. This pulling and stretching of the leather can distort the rubber of the pad and of course the angle that you have carefully set the jig to maintain. In leather covering recoil pads some portions of the sides, toe and heal of the pad must have more or less pad material removed to allow for more stretch (or less stretch needed) to cover the pad properly. This is where being able to take only 2-3 thousands of a inch of pad away with the coasting of the disc down in speed is very useful as well.

The excellent Rich Cole video he does not show much detail of the pad grinding--the most important part next to the skiving and stretching of the leather. Another thing that Rich mentions(maybe alludes is a better word) and you have to have experience in skiving leather to fully appreciate it---is that you may have to change the double side razor blades 2-3 times to skive a small piece of leather (say 5 inches wide by 7 inches long) for a recoil pad. Some leathers will dull a razor blade in just one pull of the leather of about 6-8 inches in length and the width of the razor blade. When the razor blade is the correct sharpness you can hardly even feel it cut into the leather, but beware if you can feel it cutting into the leather as you pull the leather through the skiver you are going to soon see the leather with a hole cut in it. I only use Feather razor blades from Japan. When you begin learning to skive leather for recoil pads you need to be prepared to destroy one or two skins in the learning process.

As a side note soaking the leather (which I skive to about .021" thickness) in warm water with some rubbing alcohol added helps in the stretching of the leather---the rubbing alcohol as a tip from Jack Rowe many years ago. On another side note, several months ago I located a supply of premium kidskin leather in brown color and I bought 6 or so skins. I had been looking for excellent quality brown kid skin and pig skin for years without success as on some guns and rifle brown color instead of black is ideal. I will email you a photo of the results.

As you have one of the older cast iron disc sanders, try the "flywheel effect" that I mentioned by cutting off the motor and after the sander has coasted down to much slower RPM then fine finish the sides of the pad---the transition area of the pad (from the side to the toe) that one must blend in is an area where the flywheel method decreasing speed helps. I use the same type of jig that you use I suspect (a very old original B Square).

Excellent tips, Stephen. Thanks so much. I will definitely try the "coast down" trick next time.

I also use a 12" disc sander and Miles Gilbert jig. I've also added a HF mini belt sander to speed final fitting. I've no experience with soft pads, but my general advise is to read the jig and pad instructions for tips that might not occur to you, and watch multiple videos. Its a little like cooking where you might read multiple recipes and then use the ingredients and techniques that work best for you and your situation. Lastly, I started out with a couple junk stocks and multiple junk pads from ebay and just practiced. As a result my first install was excellent. Subsequent installs have been good, but not as good as when I (initially) had more practice and patience.

Has anyone noticed that this is the buy and sell forum?

I did at the outset, but it's been such an informative thread. I would simply hope that Mr. Weber will eventually move it to the appropriate sub-forum, for preservation.

My apologies, James, for my part in carrying this thread off topic.

Rather than scold the OP for posting under an inappropriate forum I simply tried to help him.

Stan, no need to apologise. I said it in jest. I just found it funny that it had got that detailed, with a bunch of good info and no one had even mentioned the forum it was in. It would be nice, as Fudd suggested, if Dave would move it to the DIY forum, so all this good info doesn't get lost.

And there we are. Way it's done.

Well, maybe posting an interesting inquiry to the "incorrect" forum of the BBS will start a new trend. It seems that this post and the subsequent threads flew under the radar of the post killers.

This is a good informative thread bushveld you contributed nicely to it along with others .thanks