doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Shot the .577 Boxer double rifle

Got the German .577 boxer double rifle shooting today. Someone on another site said that it might be chambered for the .577 Boxer cartridge. I'm pretty sure that it is. Dimensions are almost spot on.

[https://youtu.be/r9OrAFP4YR4]()

Mike,
The Germans sold 24 gage cases (to be loaded with bullets) in various lengths. It may not have been a nominal 577 Boxer, but you obviously have cases and bullets so since you can't buy ammo at the Western Auto it doesn't matter. Shooting these old guns is a "trip", isn't it. I don't know if anyone told you, but the crown V on the rib is a Vorrat Zeichnen, which means it was already completed and for sale when the 1891 proof law became effective March of 1893 and lack of proof marks was not a violation.
Mike

Yep I researched that. The 24 gauge cases when cut down need a .605" diameter bullet. Getting too large for the .578 bore in my mind.

Mike,
You obviously "have it licked", so I'm not trying to get you to change anything, I just find the conversation interesting. First of all, by "bore" do you mean bore or groove diameter? I don't know if the case wall thickness in a 24-bore rifle cartridge case is the same as the wall thickness in a 24 bore shotshell brass case. I'm in the minority, in preferring "nitro for black" loads in my old rifles (not to avoid cleaning barrels, but to avoid having damage internally, due to gases getting inside) and I have to expand the skirts of 58 caliber Mini bullets in order to have enough resistance for the smokeless powder to burn in my 577 Snider. I understand yours and mine are two different cartridges but that is my only experience with 577s. My friends also laugh when I wrap a thin piece of duct tape around a factory 577 Snider case head to insure even expansion. I also find that oversize bullets are not nearly the problem most people think they are, especially cast or swaged ones. If there is a harmful pressure rise, it is because case can't expand to release the bullet. This could be caused by overly long case jammed into the leade as well as the overall diameter of bullet and case preventing release. If the bullet is moving, the volume of the area the gases are expanding into is also increasing thereby mitigating the pressure rise. It is almost like a single stroke internal combustion bullet sizer. The oversize bullet condition can't last any longer than the time it takes for the straight shank of the bullet to move its own length through the barrel. (It is surprising how many people seem to think that a bullet with an outside diameter greater than the inside diameter of a barrel can travel through that barrel and still be larger than the barrel when it exits.) The theory also works with jacketed bullets, except it is easier to jam a jacketed bullet into a case hard enough that the case fails before the bullet starts moving. I often use bullets larger than the barrel's groove diameter (even jacketed, mostly 32/8mm, when conditions allow), but this is still not a "free lunch" because is pretty easy to wind up with a safe load that won't shoot an acceptable group. Then you have to find out whether it is the bullet or something else that causes the problem. Maybe a discussion for a different time would be cases where the barrel demands a bullet diameter larger than will chamber when seated in a case.
Mike

The .578" is the groove diameter.

What a wonderful, beautiful old thing. Thank you for taking the time to make that video. (And I'd not expected to see white birches in Alaska, for some unfathomable reason. Figured you'd have nothing but conifers.)

I guess it would have been better if I had checked your other posting first before asking the above questions. Now that I have seen the chamber casting, I believe your rifle is chambered for 14.2x33R Wanzl Scheibengewer, which is the centerfire version of the 1867 14mm Wanzl Rimfire (see municion.org.). This cartridge is also found in European Sporting Cartridges by Brad Dixon. It is shown as 14.2x33R Target on page 147 and 148 under his number A71. Confusion always enters discussions on identification of nominal cartridges for rifles
that are not so marked. A chambercast is the only way to identify chamber dimensions, but they are always larger than cartridge dimensions. Likewise, the actual bullet diameter of the nominal cartridge is smaller than groove diameter of the Black powder rifle it is intended for and often smaller than actual bore diameter. Current protocols are different of course. The nominal cartridge must have been available when the gun was made and likely would have been in common use at the time (maybe only locally). The above-named cartridge meets the considerations.
Mike

Fudd Birch is about the only semi hardwood we have up here.