doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Drilling questions.

I'm looking at an older hammer drilling that recently had it's hook worked on (to put it back on face). It was evidently TIGed (to build up material) and then filed to fit. From the few photographs I've seen (online) the wood seems ok and the tubes are Krupp steel. It's chambered in the old 9.3 x72R w/16 bores over. The fellow listing it has been around for a while and while he's not exactly chatty (or forthcoming w/additional photos) I'm not getting a bad feeling about things (he's older, I get it). It's not lefty-friendly so I'll likely have to do a few things, but the price seems right (for a gun that's a whim, not a need). It's a minimally adorned no-name gun and while he's not exactly been forthcoming with the additional info I've requested (weight, barrel flat info, etc.) I'd like to know what should I be careful about here (other than the usual) and where might I expect to find problems in a weapon like this? I've never owned a Germanic gun before so I'm seriously underinformed. Any insight would be much appreciated.

Lloyd3,
There is one problem That can't really be fixed, and an old iron frame hammer drilling is the most likely to be afflicted by it. Be sure the action has not been cracked and welded back together. By the German Proof Law, I believe if such a gun is submitted for "repair" or Reproof it will be rendered un useable. Another problem that has to be guarded against is loose coming ribs. You should "tap" along all three ribs with something hard (I use my pocketknife bolster), loose places will identify themselves by a "hollow" sound. A minor place can be repaired, but significant looseness may be a real problem, requiring relaying the ribs. A job like that won't be accepted by a German gunsmith, but one would likely replace the barrel with a current caliber one and the ribs would automatically be replaced. The cost would likely exceed the cost of a good used one. The normal way to tighten a drilling up is to replace the hinge pin with a larger one and refit it. A "cheap" temporary way is to expand the old hinge pin, stretch the forearm iron, close in the sides of the action. This requires experience, may cause worse problems and at best will not last long. Sometimes we find user installed shims. Members of this board have experience with welding a d refitting, maybe one of them will weigh in. Most other problems would be about the same as repairing an American double, except parts are not overly available. I am a big proponent of drillings and also 9.3x72R so don't let me scare you off.
Mike

Thanks Mike! Because its a hammergun, I'll be looking for poorly fitting hammers and nipples as well. It's in nitro proof so it's not all that old but... lots can have befallen it over the years. I'd prefer a smaller rifle caliber, but one thing at a time, eh?

Lloyd,
Of course, you are right to check those things but repair of them wouldn't be very different than an American double. While you are checking proof marks, see if there is a crown E on the rifle barrel. If so, it would have been "Express proofed. This is a heavier than normal proof but by no means is it a magnum level. This is on the level of a couple thousand psi and is important only for handloaders, because factory loads at this level are no longer available. For Alabama, 9.3x72R is a pretty good cartridge, whether factory or handloads. It is about like 35 Remington which is pretty popular in its own right. If the barrel is decent, it should do well with handloaded cast bullets which work very well on deer. Of course, if you hunt the more open areas of Colorado, you may prefer a little flatter trajectory.
Mike

Dumb questions, but: what are the bores like?

Also unsaid - relaying ribs will require a rebluing job, too.

And, what is the vendor's return policy, in case your in-hand inspection reveals irremediable problems?

Dave: Return is an option, after 3-days. The bores are evidently not a problem. Still chewing on it.

I didn’t notice it mentioned above so one additional point to consider is that the 9.3x72r was not standardized until around 1912. I have a double rifle in this cartridge that will not chamber factory ammo. I can wrap the brass with tape and run it thru a sizing die and it will chamber.

CJF,
What you seem to have seem to have is a rifle chambered for the "D" form 9.3x72R. When they standardized the 9.3x72R Normalized (standardized) the dimensions were set so the new chamber would accept the "D" form and "E' form (note: the 9.3x72R Sauer and Sohn cartridge is based on an entirely different case and was not included) cartridges as well as the normalized version. The purpose of the exercise was to allow rechambering the older rifles to accept the new cartridges without being required to submit them for reproof. They were all proofed at the same pressure level, allowing this and they all were marked with the same mark (with different actual bore diameters, fitting the barrels however). Accordingly, if you choose to rechamber your rifle it will be perfectly legitimate IAW the German law for the time period. You can continue as you have been doing or you can run the cartridges into a 38-55 die (with the de-priming assembly removed, if the type that fits into a threaded bushing large enough to pass the cartridge, instead of a pin holder screwing into the top of the die.) You didn't mention handloading, but once you fire a factory cartridge after sizing with tape in a die, you can load the fired cases with normal dies instead of having to have "D" form dies made. If you decide to rechamber the rifle, don't buy a reamer without PMing me. Good luck.
Mike